10mm

Tim Hughes

Member
Jan 31, 2012
84
0
Sonoma County
Well, Luck struck me and I won a Kimber Eclipse 10mm at the local RMEF Banquet! As I mentioned earlier in this forum post, I have a Glock G40 with a red dot optic that I am completely happy with but it isn't a carry gun by any means. Now I have both bases covered with 10mm firepower. Great hunting and defense round.
 

Vikingload

Member
Jun 12, 2015
115
0
Powell WY
Well, Luck struck me and I won a Kimber Eclipse 10mm at the local RMEF Banquet! As I mentioned earlier in this forum post, I have a Glock G40 with a red dot optic that I am completely happy with but it isn't a carry gun by any means. Now I have both bases covered with 10mm firepower. Great hunting and defense round.
That is awesome! I have the kimber TLE ii in 10mm and it is a slick gun. The carry, draw and shoot feel is just solid. I'm not a big 1911 fan, but this gun is my edc for griz country. Congrats again on one heck of a win!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

shootbrownelk

Veteran member
Apr 11, 2011
1,433
12
Wyoming
Remington offers a long slide 1911 in 10mm. Haven't seen one yet. I'll stick with my S&W mountain gun in .41 magnum. My RSRH in .454 Casull is too heavy.
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,906
110
West Side, MoMo
Well, Luck struck me and I won a Kimber Eclipse 10mm at the local RMEF Banquet! As I mentioned earlier in this forum post, I have a Glock G40 with a red dot optic that I am completely happy with but it isn't a carry gun by any means. Now I have both bases covered with 10mm firepower. Great hunting and defense round.
Nice! My Kimber Custom is my favorite pistol. I never carry it, cause it's huge and heavy, but even I can hit a target with it. Super accurate pistol.
 

SansSouci

Active Member
Nov 3, 2013
207
0
I wouldn't pass up opportunity to buy a Delta Elite. A 1911A1-style handgun is very easy to carry.

I do own a Sig P229 in .40 S&W. Published velocity with 200 grain bullets and VV-N105 powder is 1076 FPS: http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/-40-s-w.html

Max velocity for 10MM pushing a 200 grain bullet is 1111 FPS: http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/10-mm-auto.html

Whether an extra 35 FPS justifies a 10MM would be personal preference.

BTW, my P-229 holds 13 rounds.
 

Tim McCoy

Veteran member
Dec 15, 2014
1,855
2
Oregon
Max velocity for 10MM pushing a 200 grain bullet is 1111 FPS: http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/10-mm-auto.html

Whether an extra 35 FPS justifies a 10MM would be personal preference.

BTW, my P-229 holds 13 rounds.
10mm ought to push that 200 faster. Possibly a light load? When I looked at 40 vs 10mm, the 10mm can push 20-30 grain heavier bullets at pretty much the same speed as the 40 with lighter bullets, or the same bullet noticeably faster. I'd check a few other sources before calling game, set, match on them being essentially even.
 

mcseal2

Veteran member
Mar 1, 2011
1,118
90
midwest
Kimber's new Camp Guard 10 looks nice. That with tritium sights would probably be my choice if I ever buy one. I love 1911's so it may happen. I figure if I ever need the gun I want to be able to see my sights. My Ruger and Sig 1911, plus my 226 and 938 all have them. I also had tritium sights put on my Ruger Redhawk revolver. If I get the Kimber 10mm I might sell that one, but might not also. It's heavy but accurate. I have it all set up with Pachmyr grips, trigger job, and sights now.
 

SansSouci

Active Member
Nov 3, 2013
207
0
Good Morning, Tim,

My Sig P-229 used to be an on-duty weapon. It holds 13 rounds.

The FBI did not drop the 10MM due to recoil that was too severe for some agents. The FBI's scientific tests concluded that for law enforcement, the .40 caliber was optimum with a 180 grain bullet at ~1000 FPS. Hence the .40 S&W with higher capacity mags.

Some 20 years ago I wrote to S&W asking for a 5-shot .41 Mag on an "L" Frame. That would've been a perfect trail gun. But apparently I had no juice with S&W.

Truth be told, I'd rather carry a 1911A1-style handgun chambered for 10MM than an "L" Frame. A 1911A1 is a breeze to carry all day.

Self-defense is a personal decision. I would rather have 13 180 grain .40 S&W LE rounds with 12 more ready to go in seconds than 9 10MM rounds. But that's merely my opinion. I know that for others, a 10MM is better. A P229 is very easy to control, which is crucial. I want my gun's muzzle to remain pointed at a threat, not clouds due to recoil. And a P229 is a very easy handgun to carry.

We fish the Eastern Sierra where there are more black bears than trout. Our primary method of staying out of trouble is avoidance. A black bear can have everything we have except our lives. My kids know to stand behind me so I'm between them and a threat. I have carried my P-229 in the Eastern Sierra. When I have, I was 100% confident that 13 180 grain LE rounds would convince any black bear that we're not on its dinner menu.

As far as Vihtavuori's load data is concerned, I think it's pretty accurate. Many shooters believe that the .357 Mag has blazing speed. But when fired over a chronograph, reality sets in. Out of a 4" 586 with max loads and 158 grain bullets, the best I could manage was ~1250 FPS. My opinion is a 4" barreled .357 Mag is the longest I'd want for self-defense. The .357 Mag's impressive ballistics are obtained, if they ever were obtained, out of 8.375" barrels. A 4" barreled 586 isn't easy to conceal.

I do have healthy respect for the 10MM. I'd much rather carry a 10MM in a 1911-style handgun while fishing than a revolver. I think that were you to experiment with various powders, you could possibly get 1200 FPS with 200 grain bullets out of your 10MM. But if recoil takes your gun's muzzle off of a threat, you'd have to think about whether the extra velocity is a benefit or detriment.

Best of luck to you.
 

Tim Hughes

Member
Jan 31, 2012
84
0
Sonoma County
Well, I sold the Kimber Eclipse to a co-worker who wanted it pretty bad. I love Kimber 1911s but it was pretty flashy for me with the polished stainless sides. I did however purchase a Colt Delta Elite to replace it. I have wanted one since the 1980s. Colt re-introduced the Delta Elite last year and they are now better than ever. They no longer make it in a blue finish so I got it in a Cerekote FDE finish. This thing is badass and I can't wait to take it hog hunting.

I have been reading what you guys have been saying about the .40 S&W vs. 10mm, and I have an opinion as well. I carried a .40 as a duty weapon for the last 23 years before we recently switched back to 9mm like everyone else. I have witnessed first hand the results of .40 vs. 9mm vs. .45ACP on human beings. In honestly believe that where the round impacts and the quality of the bullet/ammunition makes all the difference in results. With that said, I see considerable advantage in the 10mm round over the .40 cal on hunting hogs with my dogs. I need to kill the hog quickly at close range with one shot if possible so my dogs don't get injured and cost me in vet bills. I have a couple of .44 mag wheel guns that are fun but I had an itch I needed to scratch with the whole 10mm thing.

This has been a great thread with some good input from a lot of guys.
 

SansSouci

Active Member
Nov 3, 2013
207
0
Good Morning, Tim Hughes,

I agree with everything you've posted. Were I to hunt with a handgun, I'd go with a 10MM before a .40 S&W.

I'm old school retired. I began my career carrying a .38 Special revolver, then a 9MM, then a .40 S&W, and finally a .45 Auto. My favorite was the gun: a Sig P-229 in .40 S&W. I have had to have put thousands of rounds through that thing without a single malfunction. It was lightweight, very easy to carry, and I felt thoroughly secure carrying it. When out admin decided on H&K USP .45, I was good until I actually trained with one. I believe it held 12 rounds in a huge double-stack mag. It weighed just over a ton as confirmed by CA's Department of Weights and Measures. (Why do we in our state have a department for every conceivable thing?)

How's CA's wine country living? One of these days I might alter my commitment to never hunting CA again. If I do, I'll be heading up your way for a huge black tail. Years ago, I attended a training course with a cop from Humboldt County. He had offered to take me on a black tail hunt. For some reason, I couldn't go. He did tell me that he always had fun doing the sheriff's marijuana eradication shindig.

I hope you have 3 @ 50. If you do, don't allow it to be negotiated for something else. Younger cops are tempted by what they're promised now not realizing what they have to give up to get it.

BTW, LA passed a standard cap mag ordinance ban that originally applied to cops. I've called LAPD's Firearms Unit. A cop there told me that it has been amended to exclude CPC 25450. That's good info to know. I don't go into LA unless I can't get out of it. Traffic alone will kill me before bangers will. The I-5, 405, 110, 101 Freeways are really long parking lots. I rarely carry now, but I'll always take my retirement credentials and a handgun if I can't avoid going into LA.
 

Tim Hughes

Member
Jan 31, 2012
84
0
Sonoma County
SansSouci,
3@50 indeed! I am retiring in 8 months and it can't get here soon enough. I am the POA president for my agency and could not agree with you more. I am currently in contract negotiations as we speak. Luckily most of the gun laws don't apply to law enforcement (yet). This ammo purchasing BS coming down next year has me hoarding ammo now like a squirl collecting nuts, and I am going to expand my reloading equipment.

Cop stuff aside, NorCal is way different than SoCal. I refuse to go there unless it's for work. Don't write us off up here. I hunt all year long! From archery deer in mid July to rifle in October. Bear and waterfowel into January and hogs all the way back to June. I am hunting spring turkeys now on my own property. I hate the politics and am way outnumbered but I love the weather and my whole family (and Wife's) is here. I'm not going anywhere. I hunt out of state every year and even out of the country on a couple of occasions.
 

Tim Hughes

Member
Jan 31, 2012
84
0
Sonoma County
Beginning January 1st 2018 you can't buy ammo online and have to pass a backgrounf check to buy it at the store (only in CA). I am going to buy a progressive reloader because components are not included.
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
4,058
1,025
66
Gypsum, Co
I thought that I read that components were included in that bill?

I could be wrong or I might of read something that they pulled out of the final bill.
 

tim

Veteran member
Jun 4, 2011
1,778
215
north idaho
tim hughes and sanssouchi

Please don't take this wrong. But I don't know if I can support, that law enforcement does not have to live by the same laws as citizens. I know I am oversimplifying the subject, but that is what you 2 are talking about. ie law enforcement does not have to have the same mag capacity as citizens. I understand the bad guys are not following the rules, so why be outgunned, But I thought we where all supposed to be treated equal under the eys of the law.
 

Tim Hughes

Member
Jan 31, 2012
84
0
Sonoma County
Ok, I'll give it a shot because its more than just high cap mags. In CA you can't buy most weapons because they are not "drop tested" by many facturers (unless you are LE) . I was on a SWAT team for 17 year where I carried short barrelled rifles and shotguns that were full auto and sometimes even had suppressors. Being outgunned has never been a goal of mine. I gladly accept every advantage I can get with no appology to you or anyone else. The simple truth is that those who place themselves in harms way deserve every advantage.