Dick Metcalf

[shootbrownelk]

I have a CC permit as well, I also learned gun safety from my father when I was a boy. I didn't need any training that I can think of.
In Wyoming you don't need to take a course and pass a test. Our streets aren't running red with blood like some predicted. I like our concealed carry laws....there aren't any. I only got the permit so I can carry in other states. The only other state that I ever consider moving to, would be Arizona.

 

[JMSZ]

I really DO think having to take a mandated course to be proficient to carry IS infringing on my 2nd amendment rights. My thought is everyone should take personal responsibility to learn how to properly own, use, a firearm if they choose to carry one. Having the government step in and tell us what we have to do only makes us that much less free. I don't think we should even have to apply for permits either. I'll never understand why everyone wants the government to step in and save us from ourselves? Will there always be "stupid people" as someone else pointed out doing stupid things. You bet! The government interfering in our lives won't fix that. "Shall not be infringed" is pretty clear to me too.

In principle, I agree with you and a lot of others, government shouldn't be involved.

In reality, there is always some idiot who who does something stupid and can't/won't handle his weapon in a safe and responsible manner and causes people to call for more laws.

Open, unloaded carry was, until recently, legal in this state and there were people who would deliberately carry in public just to get the police to respond so that they could argue with the police about their rights and make a scene.

That is both stupid and irresponsible in any situation, but considering recent history, it's a good way to get yourself shot, not to mention making gun owners in general look like a bunch of idiots.

So, personal responsibility cannot be relied on.

Like CC, I have no issue with a training course, with the caveat that it is not excessive in length or cost.

Those courses protect the rest of us because we can then show that if somebody did something stupid and/or illegal, they knew the law and they did whatever it was anyways.

As far as the slippery slope goes, again, in principle, I agree, but in reality, it doesn't matter.

There are a lot of people in this country who believe that a woman has a right to have an abortion and kill her child, but those same people believe that same woman has no right to carry a gun to defend her child.

As long as there are a significant number of people in this country with that view of the world, we are stuck on a slippery slope and the laws passed or blocked only vary how fast we slide down that slope.

If we can at least hold the line with reasonable (by responsible gun owner's standards) training requirements, then we slow the descent.

 

[brooks]

It's really simple........No 16 hour training mandated by the govt !!!!! Preach firearms training, make training available to everyone easily, get your kids involved with shooting, buy them a gun and teach them how to safely use it, promote gun safety.... but NEVER let the govt. require a mandatory 16 hour training course because that will only be the start of things to come !!


If you haven't figured it out yet more than half of the govt. doesn't want ANYONE to own a handgun . I have a CCW in several states. Without my list in front of me I think I can legally carry in about 35 states. Talk to some of the people in NY or CA . Look at what the NY govt. just did to gun owners there and some of the people here want more govt. mandated laws on firearms ??????


My nephew, a US Marine came back from Iraq in 08 he was trained on all the weapons the USMC has . He came home went to the V.A. hospital in town because he was told after 2 combat tours that is what would be best....Now it's Nov. 20013 and he can not get a CCW because he did what they told him he should do. He now has a great job, two great kids and a wife, put his life on the line but old Uncle Sam won't let him carry a gun for his own protection in his own country. Not just no but.... Hell No !!!!!

 

[wapiti66]

That's truly a shame about your nephew brooks, for him to sacrifice and risk his own life to fight for the freedoms and liberties they will not allow him to personally enjoy makes me sick. That really shows a lot of what's wrong with this country.

 

[JMSZ]

It's really simple........No 16 hour training mandated by the govt !!!!! Preach firearms training, make training available to everyone easily, get your kids involved with shooting, buy them a gun and teach them how to safely use it, promote gun safety.... but NEVER let the govt. require a mandatory 16 hour training course because that will only be the start of things to come !!


If you haven't figured it out yet more than half of the govt. doesn't want ANYONE to own a handgun . I have a CCW in several states. Without my list in front of me I think I can legally carry in about 35 states. Talk to some of the people in NY or CA . Look at what the NY govt. just did to gun owners there and some of the people here want more govt. mandated laws on firearms ??????


My nephew, a US Marine came back from Iraq in 08 he was trained on all the weapons the USMC has . He came home went to the V.A. hospital in town because he was told after 2 combat tours that is what would be best....Now it's Nov. 20013 and he can not get a CCW because he did what they told him he should do. He now has a great job, two great kids and a wife, put his life on the line but old Uncle Sam won't let him carry a gun for his own protection in his own country. Not just no but.... Hell No !!!!!

You are using reason and logic.

The problem is that we are dealing with people who are scared of an inanimate object. They don't use reason and logic, so you can't expect them to understand or agree with it.

There are simply too many people in this country who have little or no exposure to guns and what exposure they do get comes from the nightly news.

They have no personal use for guns and so they see guns and dangerous and unnecessary. Your responsible use of your gun will do nothing to change their mind because they will be worried about the one Dylan Clebold (sp?) who might, possibly, maybe show up in their neighborhood.

Ask an anti-gunner why they don't call for the banning of the manufacture and sale of all cars, since cars kill as many or more people as guns.

They use a car on a daily basis, so that would impact their life, so it would never happen.

What happened to your nephew is a load of crap, but unfortunately, it is a result of the knee-jerk "do something" culture that has invaded military leadership.

Too many guys were coming home and killing themselves. Leadership knows full well that if a guy really wants to kill himself, he will do it. The only way to keep him from getting to that point is getting him the proper treatment, which isn't happening and won't happen.

It's easier to red flag anybody who shows any signs - which is half the guys coming back from combat - and keep them from owning a gun and leadership can say that they "did something".

That policy is also unconstitutional, but that's never stopped the federal government before.

 

[brooks]

My nephew was in Iraq when things were really bad. He fought in the battle of Fallujah. He's told me a lot about it and is very proud of his service and the Marines. When he decided to apply for a CCW and was been turned down that really hit him hard. He had been telling me for his first gun he was going to buy a Colt .45 acp Marine but some govt. agency has said .....nope, you went to war for us, you've seen combat, we don't think a guy like you needs a handgun and that's with a good military record and an honorable discharge . He carried a Beretta 9 mm as a side arm in Iraq and a M204..... Dick Metcalf can k.m.a......Hell No !!!

 

[shootbrownelk]

My nephew was in Iraq when things were really bad. He fought in the battle of Fallujah. He's told me a lot about it and is very proud of his service and the Marines. When he decided to apply for a CCW and was been turned down that really hit him hard. He had been telling me for his first gun he was going to buy a Colt .45 acp Marine but some govt. agency has said .....nope, you went to war for us, you've seen combat, we don't think a guy like you needs a handgun and that's with a good military record and an honorable discharge . He carried a Beretta 9 mm as a side arm in Iraq and a M204..... Dick Metcalf can k.m.a......Hell No !!!

That just goes to show just how screwed-up our Federal Government is. Denying a Combat Veteran and Hero one of the Constitutional rights he risked life and limb to protect. Again, Regulations suck.

 

[JMSZ]

My nephew was in Iraq when things were really bad. He fought in the battle of Fallujah. He's told me a lot about it and is very proud of his service and the Marines. When he decided to apply for a CCW and was been turned down that really hit him hard. He had been telling me for his first gun he was going to buy a Colt .45 acp Marine but some govt. agency has said .....nope, you went to war for us, you've seen combat, we don't think a guy like you needs a handgun and that's with a good military record and an honorable discharge . He carried a Beretta 9 mm as a side arm in Iraq and a M204..... Dick Metcalf can k.m.a......Hell No !!!

Brooks,

I don't know if your nephew has already tried this, but it sounds like either the VA or the Marines put the label on him.

There is an appeals process that he can go through to have the prohibition removed, I'm not sure what it is, but if he's still got any buddies in the Marines, I would suggest that he go that route first. Getting his old chain of command involved will be a lot more effective and take less time, partly because he's a fellow Marine and partly because they probably know nothing about it and will be screaming p***ed when they realize that they will likely end up in the same situation.

Worst case, he can go through the VA, but (and he's probably well aware of this) he will need to be prepared to track down the right people to get it done because there's a good chance nobody else will know what he's talking about.

 

[Colorado T]

Don't know if anyone has seen it but Metcalf was fired and the editor resigned due to the backlash G&A got...

 

[trkytrack2]

Yep, Metcalf was fired. Never cared for that jerk anyway. Zumbo either.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Don't know if anyone has seen it but Metcalf was fired and the editor resigned due to the backlash G&A got...

Doesn't surprise me as MOST hunters and gun owners feel the same way. We're all sick of the government trying to cram more and more regulation down our throats trying to accomplish they're ultimate goal... and we all know what that is. However, I hate to see someone lose their job for expressing their own opinion. We're all on the same side and our opinions won't all match exactly all the time. There is definitly a "No compromise" type of attitude out there amongst gun enthusiasts. Can't blame us I guess???

 

[shootbrownelk]

Well, just as I figured the Metcalf "Commonsense regulation" drivel he scribbled on the backstop page of Guns&Ammo is now on the Brady "GunGrabber" FB website. Getting praise from all our enemies, calling him a hero and being courageous for his PRO regulation stance. What a back-stabber he is. He issued a statement, but NO apology. Good riddance.

 

[Musket Man]

I dont get the mag but went to a news stand and read the article and that was bad enough but to get back on here finally (I had to take my computer in to get fixed so I havent been on for a week) and hear about vets being denied a concealed permit because of PTSD flat out makes me MAD!!! I am curious what state it was in. If we were good enough to defend our country we should be good enough to defend ourselves when we get home! I have a PTSD rating of 50%. IMO all vets have some form of PTSD but it certainly doesnt mean we are not safe to carry a gun, its quite the opposite. We have training and experience and when the s#$% hits the fan we know how to handle it.

 

[wolftalonID]

Well my wife attended hunters ed here in Idaho.....had two girls asking which way the 22 shell pointed when they loaded it.....bet those gals have no issue getting a cc permit if they tried.....
too bad the hunters ed instructor didnt just say whuch ever way is the easiest!!!

 

[Musket Man]

Well my wife attended hunters ed here in Idaho.....had two girls asking which way the 22 shell pointed when they loaded it.....bet those gals have no issue getting a cc permit if they tried.....
too bad the hunters ed instructor didnt just say whuch ever way is the easiest!!!

This is why Im not against requiring training to get a CWP. While I am against all forms of gun control I also believe anyone carrying or using a gun should know how to use it.

 

[wolftalonID]

"Shall not be infringed". A right given to us by our creator, no requirement for a class.

So what about the first part...do we ignore that? "Well regulated militia..." Funny how the training actually is mentioned before the part about guns.

Picture yourself in a room. A large room with say, 400 people in it. Like a giant church meeting, or a convention. In comes uniformed soldiers, all with military weapons, and a man in a suit approaching the mic. The soldiers suround the room and then the suit speaks as to whats going on and why they are there....(say a dignitary is arriving to talk not a take over ).

Many of us would be nervous at first, intrigued maybe, but not in shear panic....why? Because we recognize the uniform as " well regulated", or in other words, trained to restrain from stupid.

Now lets tweak this same scenario. All thats needed is to replace a uniformed group of soldiers with guys in cut off plaid shirts, shotguns, AR's, AK's, bats, missing teeth, chewing tobacco being spit, and a loud mouth pistol swinging leader approaching the mic. The people will audibly be screaming before any words reach the audience, and more than likely, those of us carrying will have made a decision on how we will address the threat.

Americans are mostly far from well regulated in any form or fashion. We have grown up in a world of thinking no one can tell us what to do. If they try we will sue em good, or shoot em dead. If law is crushed, we riot, loot, plunder, and destroy our own cities. I believe that training brings character, and character brings order and at some level, safety. Allowing law abiding citizens to rampage untrained with firearms has not yet caused issues, but it could.

I understand no law keeps guns out of crazy peoples hands, and that is what the politicians seem to think will happen if they make more gun laws. Funny how the current laws aren't working on the crazies.

However, training, and safety go hand in hand. Otherwise.....lets just give your teens the keys....who needs drivers ed anyway right? They will figure it out juuuuust fine cuz my kids are good kids!

 

[shootbrownelk]

So what about the first part...do we ignore that? "Well regulated militia..." Funny how the training actually is mentioned before the part about guns.

Picture yourself in a room. A large room with say, 400 people in it. Like a giant church meeting, or a convention. In comes uniformed soldiers, all with military weapons, and a man in a suit approaching the mic. The soldiers suround the room and then the suit speaks as to whats going on and why they are there....(say a dignitary is arriving to talk not a take over ).

Many of us would be nervous at first, intrigued maybe, but not in shear panic....why? Because we recognize the uniform as " well regulated", or in other words, trained to restrain from stupid.

Now lets tweak this same scenario. All thats needed is to replace a uniformed group of soldiers with guys in cut off plaid shirts, shotguns, AR's, AK's, bats, missing teeth, chewing tobacco being spit, and a loud mouth pistol swinging leader approaching the mic. The people will audibly be screaming before any words reach the audience, and more than likely, those of us carrying will have made a decision on how we will address the threat.

Americans are mostly far from well regulated in any form or fashion. We have grown up in a world of thinking no one can tell us what to do. If they try we will sue em good, or shoot em dead. If law is crushed, we riot, loot, plunder, and destroy our own cities. I believe that training brings character, and character brings order and at some level, safety. Allowing law abiding citizens to rampage untrained with firearms has not yet caused issues, but it could.

I understand no law keeps guns out of crazy peoples hands, and that is what the politicians seem to think will happen if they make more gun laws. Funny how the current laws aren't working on the crazies.

However, training, and safety go hand in hand. Otherwise.....lets just give your teens the keys....who needs drivers ed anyway right? They will figure it out juuuuust fine cuz my kids are good kids!

As far as driver's training and licenses go...well, driving is a regulated privilege, not something in the Bill of Rights. If you want to be a butt-smooching "Sheeple" like Metcalf, by agreeing to more and more regulations...by all means go ahead. It still is (the last time I checked) a free country.

 

[wolftalonID]

Butt smoochin huh? Lol only if your my wife and its hot, lol. Seriously...the ignorant cant even answer the question.

So i will repeat it and make it bold to catch more attenttion "WELL REGULATED MILITIA...."

Explain please the first part of the ammendment.

I will throw in a cut paste copy of the definition for you.

reg·u·late
ˈregyəˌlāt/
verb
past tense: regulated; past participle: regulated
1.
control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage More
control or supervise (something, esp. a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
"the organization that regulates fishing in the region"
synonyms: supervise, police, monitor, check, check up on, be responsible for; More
set (a clock or other apparatus) according to an external standard.

Hmmm ever notice even our founding fathers spoke english with complete thought....maybe us rednecks should learn to research, understand, and comprehend our constitution for how it was written, not how we are bumper sticker educated.

lets next look at the word MILITIA.

mi·li·tia noun \mə-ˈli-shə\
: a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldiers

Full Definition of MILITIA


1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service
See militia defined for English-language learners »
See militia defined for kids »
Origin of MILITIA


Latin, military service, from milit-, miles
First Known Use: 1625

And now the whole text of our constitutional 2nd amendment as a whole thought, and not a chopped up bumper sticker taken out of context.

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.





This is written clearly talking about the people to be used as needed to ensure a free state, and that these people be armed to do so. We are that people, and to regulate us as a militia means training, rules and compliance under them. Otherwise you are no different than the crazies with guns. Our constitution was written to ensure our safety, not to ensure crazy run amuck do as we like arrogance.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Butt smoochin huh? Lol only if your my wife and its hot, lol. Seriously...the ignorant cant even answer the question.

So i will repeat it and make it bold to catch more attenttion "WELL REGULATED MILITIA...."

Explain please the first part of the ammendment.

I will throw in a cut paste copy of the definition for you.

reg·u·late
ˈregyəˌlāt/
verb
past tense: regulated; past participle: regulated
1.
control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage More
control or supervise (something, esp. a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
"the organization that regulates fishing in the region"
synonyms: supervise, police, monitor, check, check up on, be responsible for; More
set (a clock or other apparatus) according to an external standard.

Hmmm ever notice even our founding fathers spoke english with complete thought....maybe us rednecks should learn to research, understand, and comprehend our constitution for how it was written, not how we are bumper sticker educated.

lets next look at the word MILITIA.

mi·li·tia noun \mə-ˈli-shə\
: a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldiers

Full Definition of MILITIA


1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service
See militia defined for English-language learners »
See militia defined for kids »
Origin of MILITIA


Latin, military service, from milit-, miles
First Known Use: 1625

And now the whole text of our constitutional 2nd amendment as a whole thought, and not a chopped up bumper sticker taken out of context.

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.





This is written clearly talking about the people to be used as needed to ensure a free state, and that these people be armed to do so. We are that people, and to regulate us as a militia means training, rules and compliance under them. Otherwise you are no different than the crazies with guns. Our constitution was written to ensure our safety, not to ensure crazy run amuck do as we like arrogance.

Ignorant? Well, there evidently are a whole lot more folks out there who think like I do. Otherwise, how do you suppose the editor and Metcalf were quickly terminated? Lots of folks canceled their subscriptions to G&A. And expressed their displeasure on countless other gun forums. Didn't a constitution framer once say "Those who would give up freedom for safety,deserve neither" or words to that effect. The constitution doesn't mention the safety of the populous, if I remember correctly. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[wolftalonID]

First....you still have ignored answering my question.....

and second...you are most correct, many people do ignorantly think as you do. Precisely my point. Americans think that because they can say four words on a bumper sticker they "know" or better put, "comprehend" the second ammendment.

G&A is a business. Our first ammendment does nothing to protect Dick's comments as he has spouted off about and made a bigger fool of himself in the process. He made those comments in the hire of a private business. The business seems to fundamentally ignorantly agree with the customer base with which it is affiliated with. Dick's comments and the EIC that approved their publication came betweent the bottom dollar of the business they were in the hire of. Simple choice, the blockade was removed....money flows again.

This argument here is simply trying to show how misread in history we are. Not trying to regulate yours or my guns away. However....wouldnt it be nice to see our states pay our way for a weekend at Front Site, all in order to be doing what they were informed to do by constitutional decree? Yet insted, they make us pay for the permits( your state not required ), the training, and ignore the government responceability to "regulate" ( ie train as a soldier) its people.

Imagin having gun education in school, instead we have a misinformed and paranoid ignorant people fearing guns in school.
Imagin seeing trained, proficient moms with guns, instead we have moms so afraid their kids can't even point french fries in the school cafe like a gun.
Imagine feeling safe at a range because those there have earned their right to enter by showing a saftey card, or feeling safe out hunting, because those out there truely understand what it means to trigger control until the target is verified, but instead we keep our eyes sideways at the range when a GI Joe loud mouth shows up with an AR displaying 50 pieces of electronic gear attached, and swear at the ahole who shot at you and your kid on the hill because he "thought" you were a deer.

making training regulatory IS what the second ammendment says first, in that training, the right to bear arms as a militia second. Its a whole thought man, not a retarded misquote its been turned into.