Ultra Long Range Shooting/Hunting

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hoshour

Veteran member
There have been a lot of thoughtful posts on this thread and I appreciate that.

My thought is this: what is unethical is to shoot farther than you can consistently hit the vitals on the animal you are aiming for under prevailing field conditions.

And yes, there is right and wrong in hunting, not just personal preference. It's not cave man days where your life depends on killing, however you can get it done.

A real hunter loves and appreciates the wilderness and its game, pays to develop their habitat and manage their numbers, and turns in a poacher in a New York minute. He is a conservationist and a naturalist who enjoys scouting as much as hunting.

He loves the privilege of being in God's amazing creation, loves to breathe it in, smell it, even taste it somewhat in a steaming cup of coffee on a chilly morning or drinking from a stream right out of the snowmelt. He listens to birds and admires wildflowers and sunsets. He'll stop to watch a hawk circle endlessly on a thermal. He would be out there even if for some reason he couldn't hunt, maybe to take pictures or spend time with his family. He takes time to learn everything he can about the game he chases because he is fascinated with them, not simply to be a more effective killer. He honors them when he ends their life, maybe just a little like the Europeans do with their ceremony.

With that kind of appreciation for his prey, to wound something makes him physically sick. He will do everything in his power to make a clean, one-shot kill and will follow up wounded game beyond what many people think reasonable.

If that ethic is compatible with long-distance shooting, then so be it, but I am skeptical. While there is an innate manly desire to push and test yourself, especially when you're young, and long shots make for effective marketing of guns and scopes and TV shows, the animal comes first.

Don't shoot unless you have put in enough quality practice time at that distance under realistic field conditions to be able to quickly and consistently kill that valuable living creature. Then, when you're telling stories, talk about that majestic animal and the experience of the hunt, not your shot.
 
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ivorytip

Veteran member
Mar 24, 2012
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i think its is safe for almost all of us that gre up hunting the west, as young hunters im sure aot of us has taken take way out there shot, just cuz we thought we were that bad @$$. we soon learn that we are not, without out the proper gun and set up those shots will not happen. some of us have been trained and can make those long shots, those who have have earned thier right to take those shots because they are educated enough and ethical enough not to take the shot unless they know they have it in the bag. im ok with that, i however am not that type of hunter. its those goof balls that are using a 30/30 with a cheap wallmart scope that think they can drop an elk at 600 plus yards that are missing by 10 yards or worse yet, wounding. a few more weeks and draws will be out, good luck everyone!
 

Elkoholic307

Banned
Feb 25, 2011
1,217
1
Base of the Bighorns
IMO a person needs a steady spotter on the animal when shooting like that so they can see what happens. I wish they would illustrate that a little more clearly along with the many other variables, so people can at least be more educated on the subject. At some point, variables begin to outweigh knowns and the shot approaches "lobbing".
You obviously haven't seen very many episodes of Long Range Pursuit because they have extensively covered the variables in long range shooting and how to make corrections for them. I really don't know how they could educate people any more. Not only do they have classes on the topic, Gunwerks also have countless free videos on shooting tips etc. They really have put out some great information. I've never ever seen an episode where they were just "lobbing" bullets and they always have a spotter. Before you start making ridiculous accusations you should have examples to back it up.
 

hardstalk

Veteran member
Sep 13, 2011
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Everything was going so swell yesterday. Then this. Oh well its getting better each time this subject is brought up. Baby steps
 

tttoadman

Very Active Member
Nov 16, 2012
629
1
Oregon
You obviously haven't seen very many episodes of Long Range Pursuit because they have extensively covered the variables in long range shooting and how to make corrections for them. I really don't know how they could educate people any more. Not only do they have classes on the topic, Gunwerks also have countless free videos on shooting tips etc. They really have put out some great information. I've never ever seen an episode where they were just "lobbing" bullets and they always have a spotter. Before you start making ridiculous accusations you should have examples to back it up.
first: I was thinking of the fact that the farther you are away from the target, the more the variables can change.

second: I have always been impressed with their spotting and setups, and that is why I wanted to touch on it. I wanted to express my opinion on how important that was for the solo hunters and the general public that want to go out and shoot long range.

I have really taken to heart some of the comments on here about everyone's personal choices. I think we are all just expressing our thoughts to help keep our sport ethical and respectable.
 

Bitterroot Bulls

Veteran member
Apr 25, 2011
2,326
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Montana
I shouldn't comment any more, but here goes anyway:

It seems some people took my comment to mean that ethics were only a personal choice. This is not true. My comment about choice was your choice of weapon or the distance you shoot with that weapon. Shooting recklessly is unethical. This goes for all weapon types and ranges. Personal competency DOES come into determining what is reckless. That is where the rub is.

It seems that anti-long range arguments propose alternative arguments at once. It seems these folks want to say long range hunting is both 1)Too easy and 2) Too hard. The First argument is that hunting is about the challenge, and shooting long removes that challenge. the Second argument is that shooting long is TOO challenging, and so introduces too much risk to the shot.

Every shot has some risk, and every shot has some degree of challenge to it. It is up to the individual to know where their own limits are. The unethical part is in exceeding your limits.

For instance, bowhunting at 50 yards introduces more risk and challenge than rifle hunting at the same distance. The stalk requires the same amount of skill. My contention is that I shouldn't get down on the bowhunter because he is taking a riskier method than the rifle hunter.

So then by extension of the argument there are bowhunting shows that show great archers making great archery shots. They are not responsible for every viewer then seeing that shot and taking irresponsible shots.

We as hunters are personally responsible to become proficient with our weapons and not exceed our own limitations.
 

Elkoholic307

Banned
Feb 25, 2011
1,217
1
Base of the Bighorns
The kid punched his tag on a nice bull. End of story. Doesn't matter how he did it as long as it was legal... which it was.

There are a lot more important things to worry about. No need to get worked up about how someone else hunts.
 

hardstalk

Veteran member
Sep 13, 2011
1,550
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I'm waiting for smartphone guided drone strikes to be legalized :D
It already is. My buddy is a subguide for an outfitter. Last year they had their hands full with sheep hunters so I told them if they need another guy to glass an area let me know. I ended up a mile or so in on a mountain where he asked me to be at sunrise and report back if I see anything while he takes the client to another spot. Sun up was slow so I made my way over a few mountains. Eventually I found some nice rams and pondered on how to get him in the area without spooking everything. I dropped a pin on my iphone map. Took a close up overhead screenshot of the map. Downloaded a picture editing app. Drew the exact line of how I came in to the area. Sent him the edited image via text. I bailed out and he went in about an hour later. Game over. It was really cool to be able to do that. Im sure the caveman are jealous :)
 

hardstalk

Veteran member
Sep 13, 2011
1,550
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Pretty sure that wouldn't be legal here.
Its definitely questionable where "radio" communication during a hunt is unlawful. Technically I sent an image of a map. We spoke later that evening about the subject and went back and forth on legalities.
 

xtreme

Very Active Member
Feb 25, 2011
859
4
Searcy, Arkansas 72143
There is just something about shooting long range. I shot a raccoon at 187ys, he was eating my protein block that was meant for the cattle. Recently a fox squirrel was in my shooting stand eating deer corn, I got him at 167 yds. While stationed in Fort Campbell, Ky we shot groundhogs at up to a quarter mile, locals with custom guns were going further. Recently got two Mexican varmints at 500 yds with one shot. I also shot a bull elk at 40 yards with a 7mm. I will not be shooting anything at 1500 yds, first I am not capable and 2nd its to far to walk to check the kill. I would shoot a mule deer in Nebraska at up to 600 yds. Even in Colorado mule deer will see you quickly at 600 yds. If I can get to 400yds, that's where I want to be on mule deer. My most memorable shot was 467 yds on a mule deer. I sat for 32 minutes thinking about it then called my brother to tell him I did everything perfect so I should have killed that deer, finally I went to check and he only ran about 10 yds to the wood line.
 

ando_31

Active Member
Sep 14, 2012
402
0
ND
There is just something about shooting long range. I shot a raccoon at 187ys, he was eating my protein block that was meant for the cattle. Recently a fox squirrel was in my shooting stand eating deer corn, I got him at 167 yds. While stationed in Fort Campbell, Ky we shot groundhogs at up to a quarter mile, locals with custom guns were going further. Recently got two Mexican varmints at 500 yds with one shot. I also shot a bull elk at 40 yards with a 7mm. I will not be shooting anything at 1500 yds, first I am not capable and 2nd its to far to walk to check the kill. I would shoot a mule deer in Nebraska at up to 600 yds. Even in Colorado mule deer will see you quickly at 600 yds. If I can get to 400yds, that's where I want to be on mule deer. My most memorable shot was 467 yds on a mule deer. I sat for 32 minutes thinking about it then called my brother to tell him I did everything perfect so I should have killed that deer, finally I went to check and he only ran about 10 yds to the wood line.
This brings up the point that some people don't go look after the shot. I've seen too many people shoot and just assume they missed. That is one of my major pet peeves. Even if I am "certain" I missed, I look for blood for at least a half hour. There has been three different occasions where the deer I was shooting at didn't look or sound hit yet I found them dead just out of sight from where I took the shot. Also, there has been times when I was almost certain I hit a deer and couldn't find blood. Due to sheer determination and being ultra stubborn I eventually found my animal. This has only happened to myself while rifle hunting but I have also seen it first hand during bow hunting where a double lung shot didn't produce a drop of blood in the snow and we couldn't find the arrow. Lucky for us the snow made it easy to track the heard of bucks and find where one buck had left the group. The deer was dead with a blood spot under it the size of a quarter.

Hit or miss, I look until I am certain the animal is dead or alive...I owe that much to the animal.

With that being said, I know I would have an immensely difficult time finding the exact spot an animal was at if he was 1500 yards away. I've gotten turned around looking for an animal that was 400 yards away when I shot since the only way to get to him was a 2 mile walk around buttes and creeks.
 

ivorytip

Veteran member
Mar 24, 2012
3,768
50
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SE Idaho
ive shot and killed elk at 50 yards where the bull didnt even act like he was hit. shot, bull looks up, walks a few yards and buckles. at long range that bull may or may not hear that shot and if he is worked up from rut or whatever, or just plain tired, u could nail his vitals and may not even react other than walking into nearby trees, now if you dont see him buckle you wont think it was a hit and wont go searching. in most cases, but i trust we are all sportsmen enough to know our limits.
 

xtreme

Very Active Member
Feb 25, 2011
859
4
Searcy, Arkansas 72143
On Elk mountain, near Colburn Co I was walking down and a herd of elk caught me from behind. A cow covered the bull but I had a neck shot and a perfect rest, shot was about 100yds, when the gun went off the elk dispersed. I climbed up to the little plateau they had been on, nothing, no hair, not a speck of blood. I had just begun to cry when the ravens below started their here he is song. There was a blood trail about 10 ft wide. The bullet had got the windpipe and juggler, I found him in a drain about 150 yds from where I shot.
One more, I took a friend hunting about 100 miles from where we live. I gave his the best trail to watch. He shot a ten point whitetail with a 30-30. Claimed he missed, we ask if he looked to make sure (my dad was with us) he said he was sure he missed. I went back the next morning and found his deer still leaning on a tree, the meat was spoiled. I always think of that when the rv show guys leave their gut shot animals till morning.
I like to hunt late in the day but I am prepared to find any animal I have shot and at least get it field dressed if I leave it over night.
 

Muleys 24/7

Veteran member
Jan 12, 2012
1,406
12
The Golden State
It already is. My buddy is a subguide for an outfitter. Last year they had their hands full with sheep hunters so I told them if they need another guy to glass an area let me know. I ended up a mile or so in on a mountain where he asked me to be at sunrise and report back if I see anything while he takes the client to another spot. Sun up was slow so I made my way over a few mountains. Eventually I found some nice rams and pondered on how to get him in the area without spooking everything. I dropped a pin on my iphone map. Took a close up overhead screenshot of the map. Downloaded a picture editing app. Drew the exact line of how I came in to the area. Sent him the edited image via text. I bailed out and he went in about an hour later. Game over. It was really cool to be able to do that. Im sure the caveman are jealous :)
Hardstalk, Shhhhhhh, don't let Ca hear that, they will have a new bill passed within a month to outlaw it!:)
 
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