2015 Backcountry Muley Hunt Planning---I

[Joshaaron91685]

3 of my buddies and I are planning a hunt for 2015 in either Montana or Wyoming. This will be our first hunt like this AND we are in FL so we have alot or research and planning ahead as well as all the specialized gear to collect. This is my first post of many I am sure. I've got a subsciption to Eastmans for christmas and a DIY public land muley hunting book.


First let me get this out of the way, one individual in our group thinks we need to pack all kinds of pistols and/or rifles like 45/70 guide gun for grizzly protection. I've convinced myself(right or wrong) that its nothing to worry about. I mean lets be aware but I dont see a need for all that extra firepower. What do you backcountry regulars say?

Now, is it just me or is Montanas fish and game website about like trying to decipher code? Would i be better to ask questions here or contant montana and wyomings fish and game departments ? Thanks!

 

[NDHunter]

What type of weapon? What type of terrain? Will you be equipped and able to pack in a few miles? Lots of questions.

MT takes a while to learn as far as regs go. Basically, you get a combo tag. Then you have to look at all the different units and see if it has a general season or limited quota season. Then look at the dates that the season is open.

As far as grizzlies go, if you hunt in northwest Wyoming or southwest Montana, there will be grizzlies. Bugle magazine just had an EXCELLENT article about defending against a grizzly. Basically, looking back at past grizzly encounters, it said that bear spray is the most effective thing to have. If you have a gun, you probably have to hit it on the brain to stop it if it was charging. That would be a helluva touch shot, even at close range.

 

[Joshaaron91685]

What type of weapon? Rifle What type of terrain? I guess backcountry isnt a terrain lol Will you be equipped and able to pack in a few miles? Definitely plan to, giving ourselves plenty of time to get the right gear and physically preped Lots of questions.

MT takes a while to learn as far as regs go. Basically, you get a combo tag. Then you have to look at all the different units and see if it has a general season or limited quota season. Then look at the dates that the season is open.

As far as grizzlies go, if you hunt in northwest Wyoming or southwest Montana, there will be grizzlies. Bugle magazine just had an EXCELLENT article about defending against a grizzly. Basically, looking back at past grizzly encounters, it said that bear spray is the most effective thing to have. If you have a gun, you probably have to hit it on the brain to stop it if it was charging. That would be a helluva touch shot, even at close range.

Honestly man I dont think we could handle high country due to the steep terrain and the altitude. We just wouldnt have time to acclimate correctly. Our goal is to spend 9-10 days in the backcountry chasing muledeer. We are willing to put in the hard work to get past most the other hunters. Just trying to fulfill the eastern boys dream of chasing western game under your amazing beautiful skies and landscape. We want the whole experience, hiking miles into the woods with heavy packs, camping, freezedried food ( I know, silly but every single little detail just excites the crap out of me), getting miles from camp every morning before light and getting back in the dark, hours behind a spotting scope...We dont want to hunt over Ag, we have that here. I want to get up on a hill/mountainsidewhatever you guys call them and look at surrounding slopes/valleys/drains for bucks to make a move on.

I've read over and over the end of Nov is the best time due to the rut but I have a huge concern and that is the amount of snowfall. I'd hate to plan 3 years and drive 2500miles just to find snow to deep to get into the woods or worse get back in there and get snowed in. How bad are the first 2 weeks of November generally? I know every year is different. Has the snow kept you guys out of your backcountry spots during this time period in the past 10 yrs? On top of all that, we will only have 2 points so where ever we finally decide on has to be a dang good chance of drawing on 2 points.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would go to Montana, hunt first part of November so you get a little rutting action.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Sounds like some big plans for a great adventure!

Where is your elevation maximum? There are great backcountry areas on the West side of the state in general areas, but most of them are going to be 5000 feet plus over sea level. Some of the best Western areas are 8000 to 10000 feet. Grizzly bears are also mostly in high-elevation areas. Bear spray and a clean camp following USFS food storage guidelines are good bets in griz country.

There is some backcountry in the Missouri River Breaks and other areas of Eastern MT, and they seem like they may fit your wants pretty well.

Hunting the rut is great, but there are some areas that close early. There is always a chance of snow, and it can be a challenge, but also can really improve the hunting. In Eastern MT wet and snowy weather can make driving the gumbo roads impossible.

Your first trip may be a real learning experience, but if your trophy expectations are reasonable, there should be some success!

 

[NDHunter]

If you want a true backcountry type of hunt, I'd say go in September either in Montana on the general tag or in Wyoming and a region h or g tag. If you go in November, I think it would be too cold to pack in anywhere and you'd freeze your ass off. Not to say you couldn't, but it could very well be 0 degrees at night, and that is in the lower country. You could very well be dealing with a lot of snow in the higher country too. If you go in September though, you will probably have to hunt high and the elevation could be your issue. Well that and grizzlies too. Honestly though I think if you gave yourself a little time to acclimate and didn't push extremely hard right away, you would be OK.

As far as points go, if you go to Montana, I think you would be fine with just a general tag. They don't have a whole lot of limited quota units. Bitterroot would be a better source in that area though. For Wyoming, with 2 points you could draw region H.

Hope that helps!

 

[Joshaaron91685]

Sounds like some big plans for a great adventure!

Where is your elevation maximum?I've heard altitude sickness kicks in around 8000' but I'm sure it could be very different depending on the individual. I'll go as high as I can. No way of knowing what that will be until I get there, the highest spot here is the top of a tall pinetree lol. There are great backcountry areas on the West side of the state in general areas, but most of them are going to be 5000 feet plus over sea level. I'm really hoping we can get to at least 8000' without issue. We are going to try to get on Diamox beforehand also, so hopefully that will help. Some of the best Western areas are 8000 to 10000 feet. Grizzly bears are also mostly in high-elevation areas. Bear spray and a clean camp following USFS food storage guidelines are good bets in griz country.

There is some backcountry in the Missouri River Breaks and other areas of Eastern MT, and they seem like they may fit your wants pretty well.

Hunting the rut is great, but there are some areas that close early. There is always a chance of snow, and it can be a challenge, but also can really improve the hunting.We would prefer some snow since this is also foreign to us, just not so much that we cant get in or out. In Eastern MT wet and snowy weather can make driving the gumbo roads impossible.

Your first trip may be a real learning experience, but if your trophy expectations are reasonable, there should be some success!I'm really hoping through hard work and smart patient hunting we can fill 4 tags in 9 days or less.

Thats it! I wont say the deer dont matter, but I'm going for a great adventure. When I first started talking to one of my buddies about going after some mule deer he was thinking outfitter/motel room comfy cozy lol I had to straighten that out real quick. I said look man this isnt just going to be a hunting trip, its an adventure. 9-10 days in the backcountry, miles on our boots with loads on our backs. I said its not a vacation, dont expect it to be. When we get home you will be exhausted.

I'm not even sure what reasonable expectations are. All the magazines are full of 36" wide bucks which I'd love to see but dont expect. I'd like to think a 24" wide 4x4 is reasonable but maybe it isnt at all. I dont mind passing on small bucks as long as I know there are good ones there if I'm willing to work and wait.

 

[Joshaaron91685]

If you want a true backcountry type of hunt, I'd say go in September either in Montana on the general tag or in Wyoming and a region h or g tag. If you go in November, I think it would be too cold to pack in anywhere and you'd freeze your ass off. Part of the reason we are planning for 2015 is to give time to get all the right premium gear. merino underlayers, sitka type gear. I know our bulky stand hunting coldweather gear wont cut it. Layers of clothes, good sleeping bags... I want to feel the cold man lol Not to say you couldn't, but it could very well be 0 degrees at night, and that is in the lower country. You could very well be dealing with a lot of snow in the higher country too. If you go in September though, you will probably have to hunt high and the elevation could be your issue. Well that and grizzlies too. Honestly though I think if you gave yourself a little time to acclimate and didn't push extremely hard right away, you would be OK.

As far as points go, if you go to Montana, I think you would be fine with just a general tag. Is this still a drawing or an OTC thing? I couldnt find any draw odds on the backcountry units which led me to believe the are OTC. Is this the case? They don't have a whole lot of limited quota units. Bitterroot would be a better source in that area though. For Wyoming, with 2 points you could draw region H.

Hope that helps!

A local guy who has hunted montana for muledeer suggested the block management areas but I'm not sure if any of those areas would allow us to hike in miles and camp 9 10 days without hunting the same small area over and over and over and like I said we arent looking to hunt over Ag. I'd rather shoot a smaller deer in the backcountry than a monster in an alfalfa field.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

There are some HUGE block management areas (Think over 10,000 acres) that ONLY allow walk-in traffic. There are also some great bucks taken in those areas.

Don't get hung up on spread. Look for a deer with good forks.

A deep backcountry hunt is a real challenge, mentally. It is easy to get tired, sore, and depressed. Many 10 day backpack hunts turn into 4 day hunts and an early, unsuccessful drive home. Hiking at even 4k or 5k is a real challenge for the sea-level crowd, even if they are in great shape. With medication, altitude sickness shouldn't be a big concern at 8k and down, but still won't let your legs work any better.

Just be sure of what you want, and have a back-up plan. Have fun and good luck!

 

[jay]

If this is your first time doing this kind of hunt, you may want to be open to a smaller buck. There are soo many variables in this hunt like what season, temps, moisture, drought, your physical condition, experience, equipment, are you planning on packing out the animals or will you have horses, so on, so forth...not to mention being out in the woods for that many days on foot is TOUGH! Not trying to discourage you but be prepared, if you get into the right area with conditions in your favor, you could very well get a buck as you stated above, afterall, being out there is half the battle! I can't offer advice per area specifically as I'm in NM but good luck and keep us posted. There are many seasoned hunters on here that will point you in the right direction.

 

[NDHunter]

I admire your ambition but feel like you might be trying to do too much on your first trip. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of backpacking experience but if you honestly want to hike in somewhere for 9-10 days, that is going to be tough. Probably more so mentally than physically. If I were you, I'd find a spot to hike in a mile or so and plan on staying there 2-3 days and see how it goes. Then plan on going back go the truck, regroup and resupply and then go from there.

Also, you said your one buddy expected to stay in a hotel. ALL of you will need to be 100% on board with what you want to do. If he isnt fully into the backpacking thing, you will be having issues by day 2.

 

[Joshaaron91685]

I admire your ambition but feel like you might be trying to do too much on your first trip. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of backpacking experience but if you honestly want to hike in somewhere for 9-10 days, that is going to be tough. Probably more so mentally than physically. If I were you, I'd find a spot to hike in a mile or so and plan on staying there 2-3 days and see how it goes. Then plan on going back go the truck, regroup and resupply and then go from there.

Also, you said your one buddy expected to stay in a hotel. ALL of you will need to be 100% on board with what you want to do. If he isnt fully into the backpacking thing, you will be having issues by day 2.

Just kick my dream in the nuts why dont ya! Lol jk i hear ya man I'm just hoping with 4 of us goin it wont be as hard mentally. We shall see. Wont know till we get there and try. I really appreciate yalls input. Ive been doing a ton of reading on old threads and stuff too.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Just kick my dream in the nuts why dont ya! Lol jk i hear ya man I'm just hoping with 4 of us goin it wont be as hard mentally. We shall see. Wont know till we get there and try. I really appreciate yalls input. Ive been doing a ton of reading on old threads and stuff too.

Actually,

The more partners you have going, the harder it is going to be to keep everyone motivated. If you have a single similarly-minded partner, you will have your best chance of sticking with the hunt.

I actually like the idea of a not-so-deep trip to test the waters, and remaining flexible.

I don't mean to discourage you, I just want you to have the best introduction to mule deer hunting you can. You don't have to be 10 miles deep to have a great hunt. In fact just getting a mile off a public road can put you right in the action.

Researching online is great, but flying around Google Earth is a hell of a lot easier than post-hole-ing through 14 inches of snow to get into a glassing spot that is a total whiteout!

 

[Joshaaron91685]

I love using google earth for scouting. I've found some awesome spots here using it. Not sure what to look for though. Here the winds out of the N/NE 90% of the time so I look for good areas that can be approached from the south...what do you look for? Steep slopes, slopes facing a certain direction, just not sure where to start.

 

[NDHunter]

I love using google earth for scouting. I've found some awesome spots here using it. Not sure what to look for though. Here the winds out of the N/NE 90% of the time so I look for good areas that can be approached from the south...what do you look for? Steep slopes, slopes facing a certain direction, just not sure where to start.

Buy Mike Eastman's and also David Longs mule deer books and highlight the crap out of them. You will learn tons and tons from those 2 books. Also Cameron Hanes back country book would be really good for you too.

 

[Joshaaron91685]

Buy Mike Eastman's and also David Longs mule deer books and highlight the crap out of them. You will learn tons and tons from those 2 books. Also Cameron Hanes back country book would be really good for you too.

Im actually waiting on david longs book to arrive. When I finish it I will order mikes. Good idea highlighting important stuff. Ive actually been jotting down notes as I read this forum too.

 

[Backcountry Stalker]

Buy Mike Eastman's and also David Longs mule deer books and highlight the crap out of them. You will learn tons and tons from those 2 books. Also Cameron Hanes back country book would be really good for you too.

All 3 of those books are worth their respective weight in gold...NO KIDDING at all! Make them a constant read as you'll find info. in them that you might have missed the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time you read over them. At least that's my experience. Try to actualize and picture their mistakes so you'll know them as if you committed them yourself. That way the mistakes YOU WILL make will be mistakes you made out of gaining experience. Nothing hurts more than having a nice buck for the taking all jacked up over a mistake that you were aware of prior to you making the mistake...TRUST ME this hurts! Don't go "all out" right away...imo this is the cause of most people throwing in the towel early. Patience plays apart in EVERY aspect of the hunt. And, going all out right of the gate is pretty much a lack of said patience aspect. Also, as someone said earlier. You all MUST be on the same page. It's hard hunting mulies solo...adding 3 more bodies to the scenerio is "whew" lol! Do your homework "before" you step into the classroom (backcountry) for the test. I'm sure this has never been an issue before....right lol ? Lastly, have a blast cause no matter what...believe me at the end of it you'll have earned it.

 

[Backcountry Stalker]

Im actually waiting on david longs book to arrive. When I finish it I will order mikes. Good idea highlighting important stuff. Ive actually been jotting down notes as I read this forum too.

Buy Mike Eastman's and also David Longs mule deer books and highlight the crap out of them. You will learn tons and tons from those 2 books. Also Cameron Hanes back country book would be really good for you too.

All 3 of those books are worth their respective weight in gold...NO KIDDING at all! Make them a constant read as you'll find info. in them that you might have missed the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time you read over them. At least that's my experience. Try to actualize and picture their mistakes so you'll know them as if you committed them yourself. That way the mistakes YOU WILL make will be mistakes you made out of gaining experience. Nothing hurts more than having a nice buck for the taking all jacked up over a mistake that you were aware of prior to you making the mistake...TRUST ME this hurts! Don't go "all out" right away...imo this is the cause of most people throwing in the towel early. Patience plays apart in EVERY aspect of the hunt. And, going all out right of the gate is pretty much a lack of said patience aspect. Also, as someone said earlier. You all MUST be on the same page. It's hard hunting mulies solo...adding 3 more bodies to the scenerio is "whew" lol! Do your homework "before" you step into the classroom (backcountry) for the test. I'm sure this has never been an issue before....right lol ? Lastly, have a blast cause no matter what...believe me at the end of it you'll have earned it.

 

[Whisky]

I admire your ambition but feel like you might be trying to do too much on your first trip. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of backpacking experience but if you honestly want to hike in somewhere for 9-10 days, that is going to be tough. Probably more so mentally than physically. If I were you, I'd find a spot to hike in a mile or so and plan on staying there 2-3 days and see how it goes. Then plan on going back go the truck, regroup and resupply and then go from there.

Also, you said your one buddy expected to stay in a hotel. ALL of you will need to be 100% on board with what you want to do. If he isnt fully into the backpacking thing, you will be having issues by day 2.

I would heed this advice!!!!

I too don't have a lot of backcountry experience. I'm working on changing that... But I outfitted my self with gear this summer and tested the waters this Fall a few times. Just the things I learned on a couple quick trips, both about me and my gear, was very surprising. A little experience goes a long ways. I'm already planning for next year and looking at where I can make improvements and whatnot.

You guys are planning a very demanding hunt. 10 days in the backcountry, with no experience, with 4 people. You have the time (2 years), I really think you guys should get to a state where you can test your selves and gear and gain some experience on some shorter hunts, prior to tackling something like that. You will learn so much and when the time comes to do the big trip, you'll be much more prepared and confident. I'm building preference points for a hunt such as you described. But I intend to have many nights in the backcountry logged under my belt before I make that journey.

Now, if you don't want to listen to me or NDHunter, listen to Bitterroot Bulls. He has the experience.

 

[llp]

You need to stop romanticizing this trip. Plan a bit more realistically.

There was good advice by NDHunter. I hunt in the backcountry for more than 30 days each year, some years much closer to 60 days. It is very rare that I do a 10 day hunt. Plan for no more than 4-5 days on a single trip, then plan to come out and resupply and go back in if necessary. You can't carry enough food and clothes for a 10 day hunt, especially in the late season with snow on the ground. Even more so as rookies.
At the very least, count on some members of your party being successful and packing out their deer to the truck early. They can always come back in carrying some resupply, but don't be too surprised when they decide to go home after they have killed their bucks. Somehow the fun of sleeping on the ground and eating freeze dried meals diminishes quickly when you don't have a tag anymore. Add a little snow and below zero temps in November, and the trip will take on more of the characteristics of a survival mission than a hunt.
You can hunt just as effectively, probably more so, by doing 2 or three separate trip in a 10 day period. You get the chance to resupply, add the items you forgot the first trip, and leave behind the useless stuff on the next trip in, and also packout any deer that were harvested. You can also eat a good meal at the road, get into clean and dry clothes, and overall just improve your attitude for the next part of the trip.
There is absolutely no need for handguns if you are already packing a rifle, even in the heart of grizzly country. Anybody who pictures themselves unholstering a handgun during a grizzly attack while they have a rifle on their shoulder is an idiot. Best case, if somebody takes a deer early, and wants to leave their rifle at the truck for the rest of the trip, then they might carry a handgun.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but a dose of reality is needed. I hope you have a great trip, but the odds of that go up considerably if you are a bit more realistic. Most people new to hunting the west base out of a camp at the road, and either day hunt or take short overnight trips into the backcountry. You can have a great hunt this way, and learn a lot about the experience before trying to tackle an extended backcountry trip.

llp