mountain rifle caliber?
- Thread starter beav906
- Start date
As much as I like my 264WM, I'm honestly not out-performing the 270 with my rifle and the load it likes. They both shoot 140gr accubonds with very similar ballistic coeffecients at around 3000fps. There isn't much not to like about the 270 unless you get away from standard hunting bullets into VLD type projectiles. I've done alot of research since my first post and have ruled out the 6.5x284 and 260 Rem for my use and the action I have decided to build on. I'm debating between a 280 ackley with a 24" barrel, and a plain old 270 win with a 23" barrel.
ChadH
Active Member
A .270 is a great all around cartridge. It may not be THE best at any one thing, but does a lot of things very adequately. It is not CURRENTLY my favorite round, but that seems to change from time to time 
Right now I am loving my 7mm WSM. I have always liked .264 win, and have a few others I would love to try (6.5 x .284 is one of them along with 6.5 Creedmore)
If you are thinking about a .270 here is a good article from LongRangeHunting.com http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/270-win-long-range-shooting-1.php
Of course, if you are using a barrel as long as he is (28" I think) you are going to change a lot over ballistics in "factory Standard" barrels of 20-24", but worth a thought.
Chad
Right now I am loving my 7mm WSM. I have always liked .264 win, and have a few others I would love to try (6.5 x .284 is one of them along with 6.5 Creedmore)If you are thinking about a .270 here is a good article from LongRangeHunting.com http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/270-win-long-range-shooting-1.php
Of course, if you are using a barrel as long as he is (28" I think) you are going to change a lot over ballistics in "factory Standard" barrels of 20-24", but worth a thought.
Chad
HuskyMusky
Veteran member
HuskyMusky
Veteran member
6.5-06 would be the same as the 6.5-284 wouldn't it??
I'd much rather see a .24-06 (6mm-06) kinda like a better designed .240wby.
I'd much rather see a .24-06 (6mm-06) kinda like a better designed .240wby.
HuskyMusky
Veteran member
it would actually be like a full length .284 win, it has a 30-06 bolt face, but it's a fatter case than the .30-06.
kinda how the RUM or WSM cases are... fatter case than bolt face...
a rebated rim style case, that's what I meant to say!
I'm pretty sure it has just shy of 7mm rem mag case capacity with a 30-06 bolt face... necked down to 6.5mm or 284 could make things interesting!
would be great for guys modifying or re-barreling their 30-06 rifles...vs. having to goto a magnum bolt face...
EdD270
New Member
Although a truly light weight rifle needs to have a short action, I think a very light weight rifle is not conducive to accurately placed long range shots. In a short action, I'd go with the 7mm/08. But a short action won't get you where you want to be for a long range round, either.
I've shot elk, deer and antelope, as well as coyotes and other critters, with my .270 Win. I've even shot metallic silhouette competition with it. Never had any problems. I recommend the .270 Win., It's not glamorous or new, but it'll do whatever you ask of it if you're up to the task. I load Barnes TSX or TTSX in both 130 and 150 gr., also load some 110 gr. for coyotes. Works great.
I've shot elk, deer and antelope, as well as coyotes and other critters, with my .270 Win. I've even shot metallic silhouette competition with it. Never had any problems. I recommend the .270 Win., It's not glamorous or new, but it'll do whatever you ask of it if you're up to the task. I load Barnes TSX or TTSX in both 130 and 150 gr., also load some 110 gr. for coyotes. Works great.
I got my barrel for my new mountain rifle ordered today. I am using my Dad's old winchester 670 for the build. It was a cheaper plainer winchester 70 with a blind magazine. Although it was a 243 it is a long action so I'm going to build a 270 win. The original barrel had the throat shot out so it had been sitting unused in the safe for a few years. My Dad, girlfriend, and I all took our first deer with it and it has sentimental value. It will be good to get it rebuilt and used again and hopefull passed down again someday. Anyway here is what I went with and the weights according to my postage scale and Pac-Nor's barrel wt calculator.
Complete action with all screws & magazine parts 41.3oz
Pac Nor 24" #3 barrel with 8 flutes in .277 cal 44.3oz
Mcmillian Hunters Edge stock 24oz
Leupold 4.5-14x40 13.8oz
Talley mounts 3oz (guesstimated)
Sling 3.5oz
Ammo 4oz
Total weight ready to hunt = 133.9oz or 8.36lbs. It's not an ultralight, but it's lighter than anything else I have and should be heavy enough to be easy to shoot well. Recoil should be mild and the barrel should be stiff enough for good accuracy. I was really having trouble choosing between 270 win and 280 ackley, but when Dad said he'd always wanted a 270 it made up my mind for me. I know from my 264 and the 270WSM I had what a 140gr accubond at around 3000fps is capable of.
Complete action with all screws & magazine parts 41.3oz
Pac Nor 24" #3 barrel with 8 flutes in .277 cal 44.3oz
Mcmillian Hunters Edge stock 24oz
Leupold 4.5-14x40 13.8oz
Talley mounts 3oz (guesstimated)
Sling 3.5oz
Ammo 4oz
Total weight ready to hunt = 133.9oz or 8.36lbs. It's not an ultralight, but it's lighter than anything else I have and should be heavy enough to be easy to shoot well. Recoil should be mild and the barrel should be stiff enough for good accuracy. I was really having trouble choosing between 270 win and 280 ackley, but when Dad said he'd always wanted a 270 it made up my mind for me. I know from my 264 and the 270WSM I had what a 140gr accubond at around 3000fps is capable of.
Bitterroot Bulls
Veteran member
The .284 Win. has a similar powder capacity to the 30-06, so 6.5-06 and 6.5-284 would be pretty much performance duplicates. The .284 has a 66 grain water capacity, similar to the 30-06's 69 grains. The 7 RM is substantially bigger at 84 grains.
The .284 was designed to duplicate the 280 Remington in the model 88 auto, not the 7 mag.
The .284 is still a fine cartridge, and you are right, husky, with its short, fat, rebated case was quite a bit ahead of its time.
cali_hornhunter
Active Member
Hey mcseal post a pic of your barrel whenever your get it wanna see what it looks like cuase im considering getting a pac nor barrel also thanks
Can't go wrong with a 243. That little 6mm bullet going about 3400fps or greater does a number on small game, including deer and antelope. The 243 is extremely accurate and and is a soft shooting rifle. Out of all the centerfire rifles I own, my old Ruger M77 in 243 caliber is the most accurate rifle I have. It will shoot 1/2" MOA at a 100 yards with an old Leupold 3x9 scope. It would probably shoot better with a new scope and a Timney trigger, but for now, it does the job just fine.
xtreme
Very Active Member
243wssm is short action and I shoot one most of the time, however for 800 yds I would go with the 7mm and over 6 BC. My Browing is under a minute at 600 yds using a 168 gr at 3017fps. Big bc sure helps with the wind.
6mm Remington
Very Active Member
Still waiting on the barrel. It should have shipped last week but they are running behind. Since this project keeps getting delayed I just bought a Ruger American on the 4th to play with. I was real impressed with the handling and the accuracy reviews I've seen so far are very good. It won't hurt to have another 270 as a back-up gun when I get the custom one built anyway. I'll post a review after I get it set-up, broke in, and get to doing some range work. The 100+ degree heat will delay serious range work a little though.
6mm Remington
Very Active Member
mcseal2 will you be starting load work with 130 or 140 gr. bullets? Those Accubonds sure seem to be a great bullet and my testing so far has shown that to be true as did the bullet out of my boy's elk last fall. It performed perfectly. I load for a friend with a 270 and 130 gr. Partitions. The Accubonds weren't made yet when I worked up a load for him.
I use H4831SC and did my load work with Federal 215 match magnum primers. It sure works well and shoots great for him. I'm excited to see how your project comes along. The least you could do is put some pictures up here so we can drool on the screen, I mean seriously, we need to see something!
David
I use H4831SC and did my load work with Federal 215 match magnum primers. It sure works well and shoots great for him. I'm excited to see how your project comes along. The least you could do is put some pictures up here so we can drool on the screen, I mean seriously, we need to see something!
David
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
This is the first time I have actually sat down and read all the post on this thread...interesting. Let me start by asking...What is a "Mountain Rifle". I know I am going to get a lot of different answers. Therein lies the problem, everyone has a different idea, hence different solutions.
What should it weigh? My factory Wby MkV .257 weighs a bit over 9 lbs. (with a Leupold VX III 3.5x10 50 mm). My sons Rem 600 in .243 with a custom McMillan stock ( with a Leupold VX III 4x14 40mm) weight right at 7. There is a big difference in performance, but no comparison in weight. My Ruger 25-06 is a few ozs heavier.
What kind of performance is required? Thats like asking what is the best PU truck...Ford or Chevy. Everybody had their own ideas. How far do you think you need to (or CAN!) shoot? I think our own individual limitations will dictate that more than most anyone will admit.
Bottom line is that (at least for me) that my 25-06 Ruger M77 or the Wby .257 will suffice quite nicely.
What should it weigh? My factory Wby MkV .257 weighs a bit over 9 lbs. (with a Leupold VX III 3.5x10 50 mm). My sons Rem 600 in .243 with a custom McMillan stock ( with a Leupold VX III 4x14 40mm) weight right at 7. There is a big difference in performance, but no comparison in weight. My Ruger 25-06 is a few ozs heavier.
What kind of performance is required? Thats like asking what is the best PU truck...Ford or Chevy. Everybody had their own ideas. How far do you think you need to (or CAN!) shoot? I think our own individual limitations will dictate that more than most anyone will admit.
Bottom line is that (at least for me) that my 25-06 Ruger M77 or the Wby .257 will suffice quite nicely.
I don't have anything to take pictures of yet. My gunsmith is supposed to bring the Ruger home with him tonight though. I left it with him to get the scope mounted. I'm going to start out with 140gr accubonds and my line-up of Hodgdon Extreme powder. I already have a CDS turret made for a .277 140gr accubond at 3000fps so I'm going to see if I can get there with good accuracy. If not I'll build a new turret, I'm more concerned with accuracy than trying to make it fit. I'm not sure if I will get 3000fps from the 22" barrel anyway. The custom 270 is in pieces, I have the action and all accompanying parts in a gallon ziplock from when we removed the old barrel and am waiting for everything else. Once the barrel arrives and is installed I'll send it off for a stock. Then it will be picture worthy. I'll get pictures of the barrel when it arrives also.
xtreme
Very Active Member
My choice is the Rem 7mm, shooting 168 Bergers @ 3017 fps. The 7mm works for anything in north america and is a long range round delux. About the only thing it give up is 30% less recoil.
On game larger than mule deer, black bear, and elk I would change bullets for more penetration and less fragmentration for large bear. The Bergers do as advertised, having recovered and weghted a berger bullet from a large black bear. The big bc makes shooting in the wind less troubling. I use a Browning SS Stalker with brake and boss detachable clip with a VX7 4.5-18x56 low mounted scope. Wt is 10 lbs with sling and no ammo. Gun shoot 600 yds under a minute in a 15mph cross wind.
On game larger than mule deer, black bear, and elk I would change bullets for more penetration and less fragmentration for large bear. The Bergers do as advertised, having recovered and weghted a berger bullet from a large black bear. The big bc makes shooting in the wind less troubling. I use a Browning SS Stalker with brake and boss detachable clip with a VX7 4.5-18x56 low mounted scope. Wt is 10 lbs with sling and no ammo. Gun shoot 600 yds under a minute in a 15mph cross wind.
The Ruger American is shooting extremely well with 140gr accubonds and 58gr of H4831SC. Groups so far are averaging .640" at 100yds. I've been using 3 shot groups, the light barrel heats quickly at 100 degrees outside temp. Haven't got it on the chronograph yet. Still haven't seen my barrel from Pac-Nor yet either, I need to call them again.
boulderbeardog
New Member
I would like to respond the carbon fiber wrapped barrel comment. I have christesen arms in 300 rum that shoots great and only weighs 7 lbs 9oz with scope and ammunition. It has become my go to gun. It is absolutely been amazing to shoot on hot days and not have any problems with barrel heating like other high speed magnums I have owned. Also there are guns showing up in long range shooting comp. with carbon wraps, not for weight as much as for barrel cooling aspect. If you don't think carbon wrapped barrel doesn't shoot look at the vortex shoot I believe was held in Utah. The long range pursuit show had it on last year. They sent a team, but the top shooting teams came from christesen arms. I think the reason you haven't seen more carbon wrapped barrels is fact that only christesen arms was producing them. But now there are more compainies out there you will see more of them. I have even seen pics of ruger m77 with carbon barrel. I don't think its been put in production but I did see a show with the Ruger president using on hunt in Spain I think. It was chamber in 6.5 creedmoor if my memory is correct.