Access Questions

[SouthernWyo]

Turkeytrack, that game warden is enforcing Wyoming law. People intentionally crossing land that they know is private without permission are the assholes, they're also trespassers.

There is no "otherwise public access roads", they either are or are not. If a road crosses private land without a public easement, either for a mile or for ten feet, the road is not public access. You guys are getting upset because you're not hearing the answers that you want to hear. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's not true.

The BLM maps carry the caveat mentioned above because sometimes federal,and frequently state trust, lands are traded or sold, especially isolated tracts. Maps are updated every few years and in the interim, land status may change. COUNTY SPECIFIC OWNERSHIP TRACTS ARE THE MOST UP-TO-DATE SOURCES FOR LAND STATUS.

A good rule of thumb for the uninformed (or someone new to Wyoming) might be that if a road crosses private land and is not clearly marked (as in, with a county/state/federal sign), it is not public access. If you buy a BLM or USFS map and a road that you're interested in is not marked as a public access road, then assume that it's not.

 

[lineman1779]

southernwyo where does someone come about a county specific ownership tracts

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'm pretty sure the County offices are located in each County seat, check the local phone book for county listings. Here in Colorado we go to Cortez, Montezuma County seat. The County Clerk can direct you to the proper person. Our maps here are pretty reasonable, about $6.00 and list the parcel owners according to the tax assessors records. They are updated when the legal owner changes. They also show the boundries and parcel descriptions.

 

[lineman1779]

i will look into that thanks

 

[SouthernWyo]

Lineman,

ColoCowboy is correct, the county assessor's office for each specific county would be the place to start. Also, try Western Cartographers at: http://midwestplatmaps.com/

Although they don't carry the plats for all states and all counties, they do carry quite a few. I'm not sure how often they update ownership when private lands change hands. For Wyoming, they have plat books for Niobrara, Platte, and I belive, Goshen counties that I know of (counties with predominantly private lands.)

 

[lineman1779]

thanks for the info

 

[ore hunter]

I ran into that issue more than just a few times in unit 21 in Colorado on the southern end?seems that the landowners have a lot of blm locked up because of the 100 ft coming off the main road in the valley,,really sucked more than a few places I was trying to get to.there needs to be some sort of easement mapping set up out there thatshows easements?,,,my blm maps do not show this nor does my atlas or diy unit map,,nor the on-x latest chip update..ive run into this in many places and it is frustrating.

 

[Disabled Combat Vet]

I hunted Colorado around Craig before I went into the Army and My dad and I were told by the game warden that there would be BLM access signs up but the Ranchers and Landowners would come take them down. I hunted only once since I been retired there bit it's been on State Trust Land. There would be just enough access on the BLM but once they took the signs down you couldn't tell and all it would take is either 5 feet on either side and you could be on private. It was a bunch of Bull shit not sure if it's still happening though.

 

[Prerylyon]

I hunted Colorado around Craig before I went into the Army and My dad and I were told by the game warden that there would be BLM access signs up but the Ranchers and Landowners would come take them down. I hunted only once since I been retired there bit it's been on State Trust Land. There would be just enough access on the BLM but once they took the signs down you couldn't tell and all it would take is either 5 feet on either side and you could be on private. It was a bunch of Bull shit not sure if it's still happening though.

This is an old thread ahead of your post; but there's worthwhile info in it.

I dunno how long ago you hunted in that area in CO, but with the consumer handheld GPS and smartphone GPS technology that's been on the scene for about the last 5 years or a little more; its pretty hard for mischevious folks to mess with access by spreading false info (taking down signs, challenging hunters, etc.) if you have accurate, up to date maps loaded into your technology.

I ran into a similar issue in WY last month. I had accurate maps in my handheld GPS and my smartphone that were from different sources; that also agreed with my paper BLM map. I also scouted the area last summer. While parking my truck on some BLM off a clearly marked county road, prior to setting up a stalk on some distant antelope on same BLM, a rancher lady and her partner came by to chat with me on their side by side. It wasn't a hostile chat, but it wasn't the friendliest one either. There were private boundaries near where I was that bordered the BLM. Seems they had problems with hunters trespassing. I was very polite, but stood my ground, not letting myself get duped, producing my maps and my GPS that justified my location and my right to be on that BLM. After a short while they left, without much of goodbye other than a stern reminder of a fenceline that separated the BLM from the private land; which I acknowledged.

Clearly, I didn't want any trouble. Its important for hunters to be good stewards and common courtesy should be shown to others. At the same time, if you have done your research and have accurate info, one should politely assert their legal rights.

Regards,

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[Disabled Combat Vet]

Yeah I haven't had any issues in 2013 when I last hunted Craig, but I do have the on x map chip for Colorado and Wyoming plus maps just in case. If I'm not 100% sure I just don't mess with it or I will ask BLM or Fish and Game later. Back than we didn't have the on x chips just the maps. I live in Colorado and nothing against the landowners here or ranchers but it seems the ranchers and landowners in Wyoming are more easy to get along with and welcoming. Yeah I'm not sure if they still do that anymore in Colorado moving signs but I hope not.
Scott

 

[ore hunter]

I just got back from my Colorado trip a few days ago,i had my on-x map chip and latest update,,i knew I may have some issues as my hunting d I y map showed it as a blm road #,,but that must not mean there is a easement?it looked like it on the map,but ya don't know till your there what ya got.It appears to me that most of these land owners appear to do this when they can and act as if all the public behind is theres too.Ive ran into this in Wyoming as well as well as my home state of Oregon,,Ive even seen signs posted as no trespassing on public roads here in Oregon,,ive called the local blm office to report this and a year later I go back and the signs are still not changed,,G I ranch in central Oregon is a big offender of this ,but it seems they are big enough they get away with it in several places even when its reported? I hope somebody has discovered some sort of easement map for the western states,,it is really needed.

 

[Prerylyon]

I just got back from my Colorado trip a few days ago,i had my on-x map chip and latest update,,i knew I may have some issues as my hunting d I y map showed it as a blm road #,,but that must not mean there is a easement?it looked like it on the map,but ya don't know till your there what ya got.It appears to me that most of these land owners appear to do this when they can and act as if all the public behind is theres too.Ive ran into this in Wyoming as well as well as my home state of Oregon,,Ive even seen signs posted as no trespassing on public roads here in Oregon,,ive called the local blm office to report this and a year later I go back and the signs are still not changed,,G I ranch in central Oregon is a big offender of this ,but it seems they are big enough they get away with it in several places even when its reported? I hope somebody has discovered some sort of easement map for the western states,,it is really needed.

There's no substitute for boots on the ground knowledge; scouting, ahead of time, and having accurate maps from several sources. That being said, maps can be in error and property can change hands, further complicating this. It seems as the hunters, we can't do enough research to ensure we aren't trespassing. However, if you've done the research, have the maps and technology, you should be confident you are are following the laws.

Easements are a tricky business; as are the BLM roads and corners. Landlocked public parcels, surrounded by private land, require landowner permission to cross to get access to the public. Sometimes, a hunting organization will purchase enough land and work with the state to make a de facto easement, or like a WIA in WY, consisting of private that is open to public access during specific hunting season dates touching landlocked BLM, now opens that BLM via access through the WIA during those times.

I do agree more could be done to defend hunters (sports people, hikers, etc.) and their rightful access to legally accessible public lands. I had heard stories about what I experienced; but wasn't expecting it to happen to me out in the middle of nowhere.



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[wy-tex]

It's possible the signs designate a change in pastures and landowners at the county road. Many places in Wyoming where the county road passing through different landowners they will post signs at the cattle guard on the road as posted, this means the land along the road not the road itself is private. A local BLM office should be able to tell you if the road is public access through the private lands. ONX has mistakes, you can not take it for the gospel on public and private roads and lands. I know of spots where it is very wrong.

 

[Prerylyon]

It's possible the signs designate a change in pastures and landowners at the county road. Many places in Wyoming where the county road passing through different landowners they will post signs at the cattle guard on the road as posted, this means the land along the road not the road itself is private. A local BLM office should be able to tell you if the road is public access through the private lands. ONX has mistakes, you can not take it for the gospel on public and private roads and lands. I know of spots where it is very wrong.

Very true.

Any of the maps and tools can be wrong. Verify, check, then check again. There is no substitute for contacting the BLM, the county, to get the straight scoop; as well as trying to scout ahead of time in person to see what exactly you're dealing with.

That being said, as much as hunters trespassing is clearly illegal, bad actor landowners trying to confound the public legal access to public lands is also wrong.

But, I understand what you're saying about the no trespassing/posted signs along a legal open to public BLM or county road traversing Checkerboard country; they may be simply showing that this is the 'Joe Crow' ranch, and then where there is a property line the, 'Ponderosa' and so on. That is typical in most places.

I think understanding all this public land access would be a good thing to be included in many Hunter education programs. I myself have had to learn a lot about all this since starting to hunt out west 5 yrs ago; still learning.

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