New Licence Re issuance Policy

[ColoradoV]

Was voted on by the commission and approved a couple of days ago. Follow the link to the new regs for 2016. No more turning in your tag last day before the opener if you did not see the animal you want or if the weather is not cooperating.

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2015/Sept/ITEM19-ChW-16-ProceduralRulesIssue.pdf

The change is you have to turn in your tag 30 days prior to the season opening if you want to keep your points - unless of a medical emergency or death in immediate family and any tag turned in will be re issued via the leftover list. So you theoretically could grab a turned in tag for 201 bull or 44 4th buck and use 0 points. That is if you know who is turning in the tag and you "happen" to be standing right behind them in line!

The new regs pdf is the link above.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I think this is a real step backwards.

Example....In 2012 I drew a unit 3 Antelope tag using my 12 points. Went to Wyoming to hunt antelope with the intention of hunting Colorado on the way home. I received a call that my Father was very bad and not expected to live. We had all our antelope in Wyoming, so started home. Stopped in Craig, turned in my tag and got all my points back. This was 3 days prior to the Colorado opening. My question is how would I "verify" that a real family crisis existed. The Commission does some funny thing sometimes that lead me to believe there is a hidden agenda behind some of their decisions. My ideas are that "If it ain't broken, why "fix" it. In this case I don't feel it was "broken".

 

[Head in the Clouds]

I think this is a real step backwards.

Example....In 2012 I drew a unit 3 Antelope tag using my 12 points. Went to Wyoming to hunt antelope with the intention of hunting Colorado on the way home. I received a call that my Father was very bad and not expected to live. We had all our antelope in Wyoming, so started home. Stopped in Craig, turned in my tag and got all my points back. This was 3 days prior to the Colorado opening. My question is how would I "verify" that a real family crisis existed. The Commission does some funny thing sometimes that lead me to believe there is a hidden agenda behind some of their decisions. My ideas are that "If it ain't broken, why "fix" it. In this case I don't feel it was "broken".

That situation sounds like a bit of a grey area to me for this new policy. I'm sure the CPW officer is given some discretion in the matter but I believe the question would be in the wording.

b. After Less than thirty (30) days prior to the opening of the season, the License Administration
Manager may restore preference points to the pre-drawing level in lieu of a refund for:
1. Extreme medical circumstances involving the license holder; or
2. Death of a license holder’s immediate family member.

(With all due respect I'm just using the situation you presented and not in any way trying to sound callous)
Since you/yourself(the license holder) were not having "extreme medical circumstances" and your father had not yet passed, I can see a case for how you may not get the points refunded under the new policy. However, I would think most CPW officers would be willing to give the benefit of doubt to you in that situation.

As far as "verifying" it to them, I would think showing them a text conversation, e-mail, voicemail, etc. would be sufficient. As would a quick phone call to the medical institution or similar.


Personally, I think this sounds like a good change since the previous policy had no provision to re-issue licenses so any that were returned went to waste. Also, being new to preference points and such I like the idea of having a (slim) chance to pick up a highly desired tag without waiting half a lifetime.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I like the idea of tags getting used instead of wasted but if somebody turns in a tag for a hunt that takes several preferance points, I think they should give that tag to someone who applied but didn't draw the same tag. If none of them take it, then put it out to the leftover list. Basically do it like they do sheep, goat & moose tags. If a guy had 15 points & didn't draw, then found out someone turned in the tag he was trying to draw & instead of offering it him they gave it to someone with no points... that probably wouldn't go over to well.

 

[JPSeveland]

I am very curious if this will help with the point creep at all. I currently know 5 people that have 20 points in a deer area for colorado that only takes 12 points to draw. These 5 people have drawn this tag the past 8 years and have not hunted it once. They go up 1 week before season and hunt hard (scouting) if nothing turns up big enought they go and return tags the day before season. This could be a way that colorado is exsperamenting with to help point creep and still be able to manige there trophy areas. I currently have a brother that returns his tags like its nothing and it drives me a bit crazy. With them relisting these tags that get returned this could be a great way to pick up a good tag and possable get lucky with some of these super hard to draw areas.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I currently know 5 people that have 20 points in a deer area for colorado that only takes 12 points to draw.

The points a person has for any given species are not tied to any given unit or area. They are applied to the unit that they apply for in the draw.

 

[CoHiCntry]

The points a person has for any given species are not tied to any given unit or area. They are applied to the unit that they apply for in the draw.

Agree... also you don't gain a point when you forfeit a tag. You get what point total you had before the draw. So they aren't gaining a point every year they turn their tag back in.

 

[packmule]

Agree... also you don't gain a point when you forfeit a tag. You get what point total you had before the draw. So they aren't gaining a point every year they turn their tag back in.

It's not like the folks hunting, say 44 4th are behind the point curve if they drew.


I know if I'm with a group looking for a deer for a 4th season hunt and they want to turn the tag in, I'd gladly be in line right behind them to grab it for nothing instead of an 18yr wait or 5 digit $. Get a cpl guys with 22-24pts together with some ailments and their entire family can hunt until the creep catches up with them.

I'm not sure that was thought all the way through.

 

[ColoradoV]

The vote was made and approved to pass the change as written to the above link. So it regulation unless they change it again. CC I hear what you are saying this commission is not doing any favors to anyone other than big $...

I too know of many many tags that were getting turned in the day before the season.. Well only when the hunter did not find what they wanted it will put a end to that and IMO that is a good thing. In one year alone I know of 8 hunters who did this and I can understand why a hunter would but that loop hole is closed. 30 days out will only basically give you a idea of if we had another bad winter or not.

Yea interesting change and it is interesting as they also plan on banking $1 - 1.3 million extra in license sales due to the change and that seems to be the main driving force behind the CPW right now. Honestly it does not sound like the CPW put that much thought into how the extra tags are allocated (other than they wanted the cheapest way as in another draw or way to give out the tag to the next in line will cost more $). Or the CPW basically does not care who they go to as long as the $ hits the bottom line.. I doubt that there are too many folks who will give up a point to give their licence out as the guys who I know who have 15+ points have a plan and w point creep the way it is now even giving up a year is giving up a lot.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

The vote was made and approved to pass the change as written to the above link. So it regulation unless they change it again. CC I hear what you are saying this commission is not doing any favors to anyone other than big $...

Yea interesting change and it is interesting as they also plan on banking $1 - 1.3 million extra in license sales due to the change ..... Or the CPW basically does not care who they go to as long as the $ hits the bottom line..

I believe its money only. One of their financial analyst probably crunched some numbers and it caught their attention.

As for the situation you mention about turning in the tag because the hunter did not like what they saw after scouting.....my answer is too bad! We all take that chance when we apply early in the year. I have 15 points for antelope here and will probably use them next year. I won't do any scouting as I know the area pretty well and I am sure there will be a few good bucks around. Thus year I burned 8 points on deer and settled for a nice buck, but not even close to a record book animal. It was my decision based on the conditions at the time and I am content with my decision.

 

[packmule]

I saw a lot of PLO vouchers not get validated this year as well in units that usually wouldn't have lasted long enough to be advertised. Wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't figured into missed revenue.

 

[JPSeveland]

Agree... also you don't gain a point when you forfeit a tag. You get what point total you had before the draw. So they aren't gaining a point every year they turn their tag back in.

You should pry check on that this year because i returned my brothers tags for him he had a deer tag an elk tag and a bear tag and was fully refunded and recieved points for those species. He had 0 points when he drew his elk tag and know has 1 point deer he had 1 point know has 2 bear he had 1 point know has two and shows on his preffrence point totals.

 

[JPSeveland]

I believe its money only. One of their financial analyst probably crunched some numbers and it caught their attention.

As for the situation you mention about turning in the tag because the hunter did not like what they saw after scouting.....my answer is too bad! We all take that chance when we apply early in the year. I have 15 points for antelope here and will probably use them next year. I won't do any scouting as I know the area pretty well and I am sure there will be a few good bucks around. Thus year I burned 8 points on deer and settled for a nice buck, but not even close to a record book animal. It was my decision based on the conditions at the time and I am content with my decision.

I absolutly agree with you and beleave this is a money play by CPW they had a record year this year and had 500,000 applicants were there average is only 200,000-230,000. I think if any one was to ask about this they will most likely tell you that this new system there revinue will be getting greater but if they dont do this they will raise prices on tags again, and then they will blame the mule deer hurds are down and they cut quotas and have to make that money up somewhere witch i can understand to a point but i would sure like to see the numbers.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

You should pry check on that this year because i returned my brothers tags for him he had a deer tag an elk tag and a bear tag and was fully refunded and recieved points for those species. He had 0 points when he drew his elk tag and know has 1 point deer he had 1 point know has 2 bear he had 1 point know has two and shows on his preffrence point totals.

The year I turned my antelope tag in because my Dad died, I only got my original points that I had going into the draw.

 

[Finsandtines]

According to my understanding, you don't get points if refunded but if you forego refund, points will reflect......

 

[JPSeveland]

Let me get in contact with some of my friends that work with CPW this week and get to the bottom of this so we all know what the rules and laws are cause currantly my brothers PP are showing something diffrent then what has happened to you in the past how long ago did you turn in your antelope tag cowboy? My family is all colorado residents as well i am the only NR

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Let me get in contact with some of my friends that work with CPW this week and get to the bottom of this so we all know what the rules and laws are cause currantly my brothers PP are showing something diffrent then what has happened to you in the past how long ago did you turn in your antelope tag cowboy? My family is all colorado residents as well i am the only NR

Turned it in 2012.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I turned one in last year and didn't gain a point. Only got my current points before the draw reinstated when I forfeited the $ for the tag. It's been that way for a long time. Never heard of anything different. I bet it states this in the regulations too.

 

[CoHiCntry]

You should pry check on that this year because i returned my brothers tags for him he had a deer tag an elk tag and a bear tag and was fully refunded and recieved points for those species. He had 0 points when he drew his elk tag and know has 1 point deer he had 1 point know has 2 bear he had 1 point know has two and shows on his preffrence point totals.

Were they 2nd choice tags? If so, then you do gain a point and can get a refund if you don't want the tag anymore...

 

[cmbbulldog]

If you turn your tag back in you do NOT get a bonus point