game ranch hunt

[ivorytip]

ran into some boys last week that had heads of three big bulls, 340, 360, and 365. I was in shock, I asked the obvious question if they shot those in the very unit we were in ... where I was hunting and they said yes just above the reservoir. in my mind I was like, no way in heck did those 3 monsters come out of there, I woulda seen them had they of. then got to looking and I seen special tags around antler that said name of a game ranch bout 40 miles north of where we were. awesome heads but totally took the enjoyment away for me. kind of a pet peeve of mine for these game ranch hunters to try to say they hunted them on public lands fair chase. not the same not the same at all. not even a little bit.

 

[sneakypete]

I'm with you on that ivory tip !

 

[SansSouci]

Ivorytip,

The part I don't like is deception.

I'm a total and committed laissez-faire capitalist. I'm 100% supportive of bona fide business transactions. If a guy is in the game ranching business and clients knowingly and willingly pay to hunt ranched animals, I'm good. While it's not a hunt that I'll do, I'm perfectly good with others hunting ranched animals. In fact, years ago I was told of a Yellowstone elk migration hunt. I've been to Yellowstone. Hunting Yellowstone elk would be akin to a ranch hunt. Yellowstone elk are virtually tame. They'll walk right up to humans. While I'm good with hunters hunting them, it's not what I'd consider a fair chase hunt. Hunting black bear around Eastern Sierra campgrounds is about the same concept. While black bear are always dangerous, Eastern Sierra campground black bears have no fear of humans. They'll lounge around campers' campgrounds like invited guests. Shooting one would do nothing for me. It'd be like shooting a pet, albeit a very dangerous one.

I am an orthopedic nightmare. I've had 11 orthopedic surgeries, and that does not include a damaged lumbar region that ain't yet deteriorated to the point of surgical necessity. When I can no longer hunt, I'll set up a good blind in a certain area and hope big game come to me.

Knowing how injuries can affect one's ability to hunt, it might just be that one either ranch hunts or doesn't hunt. And we ain't yet considered hunters with bad hearts, cancer, etc.

In my opinion based upon a lot of personal knowledge of debilitating injuries, ranch hunts serve a valuable need for some hunters.

My only caveat is that ranched animals are excluded from B&C & Pope & Young records.

 

[Work2hunt]

I'm with you Ivory. If you are going to hunt a farm, man up and say so. Don't try to hide and say you shot the animal somewhere else.

 

[AT Hiker]

Touchy subject, but yea...if you hunt a high fence ranch just say so.

I know someone who has personally do so, low and behold they are now "master" hunters, I think this make believe world of antler porn we see on TV summons some folks to think that the only way to be a successful hunter is to kill big antlers.

I would love to see some of these whitetail TV personalities hunt some south eastern public ground, killing a doe on some properties is a feat in itself.

Like mentioned above, I am for the free market. So as long as there are no major ill effects associated with it, sadly game farming has some serious research that needs to be done to ensure the safety of the animals and their wild counterparts.

 

[SansSouci]

AT Hiker,

I hear what you're saying. But if ranched animals are excluded from record books (they should be), does it matter if a hunter admits where he killed his animal? My point is if a hunter is disabled or otherwise precluded from rigorous public land hunting, accord him dignity due to his disability. It would serve no purpose to our sport were we to belittle a hunter for his choice of hunting. Many states have enacted disabled hunter laws that allow such hunters to hunt from vehicles and to use partners to kill their game. I think it's a fantastic idea that disabled hunters are able to continue to enjoy the sport that we all love.

Were I to see a disabled hunter with a huge rack, I'd congratulate him. In fact, I'd be happy that he was able to hunt. If I knew it was a ranched animal, I'd never say a thing to him.

Even if a hunter were not disabled, if he killed a ranched animal, it would be his business.


Take care,

SS

 

[ivorytip]

if your willing to pay that insane amount of cash to do it I have no prob with it, but don't tell me you worked ur arse off scouting and backpacking in to kill a monster bull when a monster bull has been feed the proper foods for ya to shoot. I am thankful that there are opportunities for those with disabilities to hunt big game, but there lots of those same possibilities off of a big zoo in the wild. im saying no bad on the matter other than, say it as it is. and these farm animals will never be scored and recognized by B&C and pope, these animals are feed so many more minerals to allow for crazy antler growth that isn't provided to the free range animal. not to mention in most cases these aren't even pure rocky mountain or rose elk, a lot of stag foreign stag blood runs through these beasts. would it be awesome? would I jump at the chance to do it if someone gave me the chance at a much more reasonable price? I sure would in a heart beat! but id say "hey fellas, im goin into the high fence to shoot me one of those monsters wish me luck they come to feed buckets today"

 

[ivorytip]

AT Hiker,

I hear what you're saying. But if ranched animals are excluded from record books (they should be), does it matter if a hunter admits where he killed his animal? My point is if a hunter is disabled or otherwise precluded from rigorous public land hunting, accord him dignity due to his disability. It would serve no purpose to our sport were we to belittle a hunter for his choice of hunting. Many states have enacted disabled hunter laws that allow such hunters to hunt from vehicles and to use partners to kill their game. I think it's a fantastic idea that disabled hunters are able to continue to enjoy the sport that we all love.

Were I to see a disabled hunter with a huge rack, I'd congratulate him. In fact, I'd be happy that he was able to hunt. If I knew it was a ranched animal, I'd never say a thing to him. there is something a about a fairchase hunt though, the time, the energy, the hard work, a respect thing I guess. someone almost takes that respect from ya by making up a story about it though. but what works works for whatev individual.



Take care,

SS

I think we all see where we are coming from, and you are right, my fathers disabled but refuses and refused an opportunity at one of these "hunts", just doesn't fit him. he sure took advantage of shooting from his truck thoughhahaha crazy bastard!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Very simple guys---If a place isn't big enough with enough terrain and cover to allow the game, whatever it is, to have the same chance at survival as if the fence isn't there, then call it shooting because it is not hunting in the true sense of the word! If those three guys took big bulls like that, especially in a short period of time, they weren't hunting no matter what they or anyone else wants to call it!

 

[AT Hiker]

SS,

Im speaking more on the side of someone deceiving you or I about a canned hunt, I have no problem if someone wants to pay $20K plus to hunt a fenced animal. I also have no issue with disabled hunters getting a fair opportunity. You dont have to tell me, but dont lie or deceive as that does 0 justice for the sport. Its like me going to a trout pond, loading up on a bunch of filets then getting on here and telling everyone that I am a expert backcountry fly fisherman.

 

[Winchester]

I have no issue with providing an opportunity for disabled hunters ... but that's not what this is about. These guys lied about where they got their elk ... presumably because they wanted others to think they worked harder than they really did. That's low class and a misjustice for our sport. If you want to hunt like that just man-up and say so.

 

[okielite]

I don't mind the high fence places as long as they dont' pose a threat to wildlife. There is an elk operation near me and every year the wild elk end up on the fence line during the rut.

I was talking to them the other day and they told me they used to have mule deer but they kept getting worms so they stopped. Would hate to see mule deer exploited by game farms like elk and whitetail have.

 

[buckbull]

I guess I'd be considered pretty extreme in my views. No wild animal should be caged unless it is for scientific study such as finding a cure for CWD. We already have domesticated animals for food sources. The only benefit to caging up Elk and deer is for economic gain. Some animals on earth need to stay wild, and I consider Elk and deer in that group. It probably really sucks to be disabled and not be able to hunt the way you want. I understand that; but life isn't fair. Should animals meant to be wild be stuck in pens to allow folks to shoot them? I'd say no.

 

[packmule]

Mule Deer don't fair too well behind a fence for whatever reason. Folks try it here and they seem to do well in breeder pens with forced diets, water & meds, but not so well turned loose in bigger pens.


Not a big fan of the deception of trying to pass off game ranch animals as public land animals. I don't mind stretching the truth on where public land animals come from.

 

[CrossCreeks]

I take ending a animal's life serious and each to it's own but I am going to be truthful about it. It kinda let's the air out a little when you find people have misplaced the truth about killing an animal.

 

[bdan68]

I guess I'd be considered pretty extreme in my views. No wild animal should be caged unless it is for scientific study such as finding a cure for CWD. We already have domesticated animals for food sources. The only benefit to caging up Elk and deer is for economic gain. Some animals on earth need to stay wild, and I consider Elk and deer in that group. It probably really sucks to be disabled and not be able to hunt the way you want. I understand that; but life isn't fair. Should animals meant to be wild be stuck in pens to allow folks to shoot them? I'd say no.

Well said, my thoughts exactly!

Luckily for me, game farms are illegal here in Washington state. One of the only things I like about living here!

 

[okielite]

Well said, my thoughts exactly!

Luckily for me, game farms are illegal here in Washington state. One of the only things I like about living here!

That is impressive. Most states have some kind of game farms from pheasants to buffalo and everything in between it seems. Even Montana who doesn't allow shooting of high fence animas still allows elk "ranching" which is no different other than one being slaughtered and the other being shot. Good for Washington banning all game farm activity. I wonder how many states dont' allow any type of game farms, I bet the list is short.

 

[SansSouci]

AT Hiker,

I'm right with you as is indicated by the first sentence of my first post.

But then again, we'd all probably be able to figure out where a ranched animal was killed, especially since wildlife services agency does not issue wild game tags for ranched animals.

But I'm good with a ranch hunter stretching the truth. If he wants me to believe that he killed a trophy bull after an arduous public land hunt, I'm good. I won't argue with him. The guy might be dying of cancer for all I know and it might have been his last hunt.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

That was an excellent post buckbull and I agree 100%. The problem with these places is that the antis try to tell all of those that are on the fence as far as gun ownership and hunting are concerned that these high fence places and game farms are the norm in hunting. They are not hunting in any way shape or form when a guy goes to a place and is assured that he will take an animal for the money he paid the place! The day my health gets to the point where I can't do a fair chase hunt of any sort is that day I hang it up because there is no way I could shoot a captive animal.

 

[bdan68]

That is impressive. Most states have some kind of game farms from pheasants to buffalo and everything in between it seems. Even Montana who doesn't allow shooting of high fence animas still allows elk "ranching" which is no different other than one being slaughtered and the other being shot. Good for Washington banning all game farm activity. I wonder how many states dont' allow any type of game farms, I bet the list is short.

I'm pretty sure Wyoming banned game farms many years ago. But I'm not sure if there are any other states, at least in the west.