Wyoming Mule Deer Problems / Public land access / Point restrictions

[Ilovethewest]

I posted this on another thread, but I thought I would included a topic in the Wyoming thread

i am not a big point restriction guy. we shot a mulie b/w sundance and upton once that was almost 28" wide and 24" tall..............2x2. It was the biggest 2x2 i had ever seen, and a trophy in anyones book. and genetically, should be culled. having to pass on that buck to me is just wrong. So I would avoid point restrictions

I think there are a few changes that can be made to hunting / mule deer in wyoming. Take region C.......it encompasses several Units (17,18,19,20, 21....mayeb some others).......yet with 1 Region C tag, I can hunt all those units. what happens, is the larger more accessible public areas get hammered.....really really bad. and every forkie gets shot. so you have bad over-crowding and small buck size. solution...........get rid of general and region tags, and go unit specific for the entire state, resident or nonresident. You apply for a.......Unit 20 tag, you hunt unit 20. and that is it. set quotas per unit. take into account amount of private land vs public. this would spread out hunters and help with buck recruitment.

secondly, wyoming has a HUGE problem with private land vs public land access. I can think of 2 larger public tracts in Region C that it is virtually impossible to get to without a helicopter due to crossing private lands to get to them. yet.....those roads were put in with taxpayer dollars, maintained by taxpayer dollars......yet access is restricted by "private entities".......this is killing hunting. and frankly, it is not right or fair. My federal tax dollars pay for public property just as much as a resident from wyoming does, if it is federal lands. I would pass a law REQUIRING public access to and from public parcels larger than........who knows how large a tract say 2 square miles.....across private lands with no tresspass fee. You could require guns to be in a case......you cannot step out of the vehicle on those lands.......or something. But having landlocked public lands is a travesty. And it ruins hunting in other areas. It concentrates hunter density and kills off too many deer. Access issues have to be looked at.

I know many people might not agree with me, but I think if you worked on access and micromanaged units, you would see a huge increase in the mule deer population and buck size.

and.....I am not bashing landowners. Its the law, and if I was a landowner, I would do the same. The problem is the way the laws read. Change the laws to make public lands easier to access.

what say you guys???

 

[kcaves]

I agree 100% but the fact that the Wyoming government is run by ranchers for ranchers. Nothing like that will ever happen. It's just like corner jumping

 

[Ilovethewest]

I envision some sort of Walk-In program for Road access. Maybe even a extra stamp/fee like the Conservation stamp. Each area could have "access roads" on a map just like the Walk-In lands are labeled. You get your access stamp / fee and you can cross those lands. Procedes could go to ranchers for access.

Just some ideas I had after hearing people complain about mule deer hunting in Wyoming. I think changes could be made if people were willing to try and not base their opinions solely on self-gain.

anyone else? would love to hear from some other residents of the state.

This is jus ta fun discussion.......not try to argue or upset anyone!

 

[Ilovethewest]

I don't want to come across as anti-landowner. I am not at all. As with everything, there are a few bad apples that ruin things. I would just like to hear some ideas on improving mule deer hunting in Wyoming. and I think Hunter Densities and land Access are 2 very big pieces of the puzzle in making better mule deer hunting in Wyoming.

and in general......especially in my state of Wisconsin......land access is really limiting hunting opportunities. We have whole generations of potential hunters not getting into the sport because of no land access. We have super liberal seasons, liberal bag limits....and yet hunting is dying because without Big Money (leases, land owning, outfitters), there are no good places to hunt. So access is a major issue for our sport. If it ever gets to the point where you have to buy land or hire an outfitter,.......our sport dies. and with it, our rights and the wildlife itself. This is a major issue.

 

[Musket Man]

IMO the problem with improving BLM access is it would make those areas harder to draw. The reason these areas can be drawn every year or have leftover tags is because of the access issues. Generally in WY the better the access the harder the tag is to draw. Also those hard to get to chunks of BLM can be the best hunting if you can find a way to get to them and are willing to walk. If there were public roads going into those areas there would be lots of hunters in them

 

[Wyohunter]

A 28 inch fork horn? You were in unit five just outside of upton weren't you ilovethewest.

 

[Ilovethewest]

I don't remember the unit. My uncle shot it when I was a young kid in like 8th grade before I could hunt (a good 20 years ago!). We were on a ranch b/w sundance and upton. It was a brute. lots of mass too. I forget the exact measurements. Maybe it wasn't as big as I remember. I haven't seen the deer in years, but I am pretty sure my memory is correct. I should meaure it up the next time I get to my uncles place.

one way or the other, it was a buck few would pass on!

 

[Wyohunter]

I don't remember the unit. My uncle shot it when I was a young kid in like 8th grade before I could hunt (a good 20 years ago!). We were on a ranch b/w sundance and upton. It was a brute. lots of mass too. I forget the exact measurements. Maybe it wasn't as big as I remember. I haven't seen the deer in years, but I am pretty sure my memory is correct. I should meaure it up the next time I get to my uncles place.

one way or the other, it was a buck few would pass on!

I agree I would have shot it and even if there was a point limitation it would probably be over looked when it comes to a deer that size. The genetics in that area are horrible it is really common to see large fork horns there.

 

[Ilovethewest]

the ranches we hunted was the Dillon ranch, and also some on the Hamilton ranch. When the father, Leon, died, the family told rights out to outfitters. Not sure about the Hamilton ranch if they are outfitted or not. Couple of chunks of school land we hunted too. I miss hunting the wooded areas of NE Wyoming. while I never got to actually hunt it myself, I was along on many hunts as a kid. From what I hear, those areas are even more locked up than they were when I was a kid.

 

[birdhunter]

Yep locked up even more and the access granted is even harder to achieve. That buck was around inyan kara mountain. There are even now a couple bucks that are 2 or 3 points and the 3 point is figured to be around 34 to 36" wide. There is a road that takes you from the west side of kara mtn and you can access that land. Every year there are hundreds of hunters trying to get to those deer. As soon as the season ends, the deer come out and people just stare at them. Neat to know that your uncle probably has a great great ancestor of those deer!!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

A 28 inch fork horn?

Not as unusual as you might think. I have one mounted around that size. Shot it in the High Sierras in Calif in 1969. Look at my Album, last picture (only double) on the bottom. I have also seen several like it here in Colorado. They are pretty unusual looking and do make a great wall hanger.

 

[Stig87]

I agree with most of what has been said about gaining access to public lands. A good portion of the public lands that are landlocked are leased to landowners for grazing (at a pretty cheap cost too I think). IMHO if the land is leased to the landowner, then the public should have access to it.

I agree with ILovetheWest about requiring guns cased, unloaded....whatever they want while we cross private lands; but if public land is landlocked and leased to a landowner, there is no reason why the everyday sportsman should not have access to it.

 

[MT628]

I'm late to the party and rarely comment on such forums, but I have to state my agreement with you on this issue. Some of the best public land hunting areas in Montana are completely surrounded by private lands which do not allow access. They however, use our public lands as their private playgrounds to recreate on - or even profit from by charging hunters exhorbitant amounts for access privilege to hunt our public lands (essentially blocking access to local hunters).

OK, off my soapbox.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I agree with most of what has been said about gaining access to public lands. A good portion of the public lands that are landlocked are leased to landowners for grazing (at a pretty cheap cost too I think). IMHO if the land is leased to the landowner, then the public should have access to it.

I agree with ILovetheWest about requiring guns cased, unloaded....whatever they want while we cross private lands; but if public land is landlocked and leased to a landowner, there is no reason why the everyday sportsman should not have access to it.

I agree wholeheartedly Stig. If this were anywhere east of the missisippi river, and the parcels landlocked were as enormous as some of them here in Wyoming are, they would condemn enough ground to provide public access. And as previously stated in an earlier post, the ranchers and AG in general have a strangle hold on our legislators. They do what Ranchers want, because most of them (including Governor Mead) are ranchers themselves. Sportspeople aren't allowed free access to public lands for 2 or 3 months of the year, while ranchers have access 24/7/12 and it won't change anytime soon. Heck, even the G&F are the Ranchers bitches. My 2 cents.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

I agree wholeheartedly Stig. If this were anywhere east of the missisippi river, and the parcels landlocked were as enormous as some of them here in Wyoming are, they would condemn enough ground to provide public access. And as previously stated in an earlier post, the ranchers and AG in general have a strangle hold on our legislators. They do what Ranchers want, because most of them (including Governor Mead) are ranchers themselves. Sportspeople aren't allowed free access to public lands for 2 or 3 months of the year, while ranchers have access 24/7/12 and it won't change anytime soon. Heck, even the G&F are the Ranchers bitches. My 2 cents.

I'm sorry to say that I mostly agree with what has been said. Ranchers own the legislature and the G&F. I'm also sorry to say that some slob hunters are our enemies. Ranchers are put off by the few who inevitably screw things up for the rest of us. Every year another landowner pulls a property out of WIA or HMA due to some dipsh*T who trashes their place or does something else stupid. A single moron can end it for the rest of us.

I commend the G&F for continuing to seek out opportunities for sportsmen. But their hands are tied to a great extent. They can't compete with the money of some who can pay thousands for outfitting leases. And, quite frankly, a good outfitter who can pay will have less of an impact on the land than an unlimited WIA.

It's the lucky sportsman who can get cheap access to prime ground. Most of us have to face the music that we have our work cut out for us to find good hunting on heavily hunted areas. This good hunting exists, it's just incredibly hard to find, and even tougher on the body.

 

[ssliger]

I'm sorry to say that I mostly agree with what has been said. Ranchers own the legislature and the G&F. I'm also sorry to say that some slob hunters are our enemies. Ranchers are put off by the few who inevitably screw things up for the rest of us. Every year another landowner pulls a property out of WIA or HMA due to some dipsh*T who trashes their place or does something else stupid. A single moron can end it for the rest of us.

There is a ranch outside of Centennial WY called the 91 Ranch, they do not allow any hunting what so ever. So they have a resident herd of elk that lives there year round and when the bullets start flying a whole bunch more goes there. You can go out in the middle of the day and see 300 head just milling around. Just last weekend I witnessed a hunter take down a gate, leave it down and drive onto the ranch to glass the herd. The gate was posted, he just didn't care. These are the morons we are dealing with.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I'm sorry to say that I mostly agree with what has been said. Ranchers own the legislature and the G&F. I'm also sorry to say that some slob hunters are our enemies. Ranchers are put off by the few who inevitably screw things up for the rest of us. Every year another landowner pulls a property out of WIA or HMA due to some dipsh*T who trashes their place or does something else stupid. A single moron can end it for the rest of us.

I commend the G&F for continuing to seek out opportunities for sportsmen. But their hands are tied to a great extent. They can't compete with the money of some who can pay thousands for outfitting leases. And, quite frankly, a good outfitter who can pay will have less of an impact on the land than an unlimited WIA.

It's the lucky sportsman who can get cheap access to prime ground. Most of us have to face the music that we have our work cut out for us to find good hunting on heavily hunted areas. This good hunting exists, it's just incredibly hard to find, and even tougher on the body.

Agreed, one bad apple spoils the rest. I've seen the idiots going off road and the "MudBoggers" ruining roads or making their own.
This year I saw 4 occupied camp trailers on Wyoming State land (Illegal) and they didn't seem to care when I told them so. That's what gets state land closed (except for ranchers). By the way, from what I've seen...the outfitters lease the prime ranches and the G&F gets access to lands from ranchers who can't lease it to outfitters because of lack of game, land that's overgrazed to the point where a grasshopper would have to pack a lunch.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I agree with most of what has been said about gaining access to public lands. A good portion of the public lands that are landlocked are leased to landowners for grazing (at a pretty cheap cost too I think). IMHO if the land is leased to the landowner, then the public should have access to it.

I agree with ILovetheWest about requiring guns cased, unloaded....whatever they want while we cross private lands; but if public land is landlocked and leased to a landowner, there is no reason why the everyday sportsman should not have access to it.

Stig, the public land rancher is leasing the GRASS, he doesn't own the wildlife, and shouldn't have one damned thing to say about what gets hunted as long as it's legal and in season. Heck, they even get to negotiate gas & oil lease agreements and THEY get a cut along with the state, sometimes far in excess of what their lease payment is. A stacked deck, to say the least.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

Stig, the public land rancher is leasing the GRASS, he doesn't own the wildlife, and shouldn't have one damned thing to say about what gets hunted as long as it's legal and in season. Heck, they even get to negotiate gas & oil lease agreements and THEY get a cut along with the state, sometimes far in excess of what their lease payment is. A stacked deck, to say the least.

It's all about money. The rancher will do anything to perpetuate the lifestyle. I guess it's not fair to lump them all in one category, as many do understand that we need to have a place to hunt, but most are after the all mighty dollar. I saw a trespassing sign the other day that categorizes the sentiment of many a landowner. This was on a headstone on a mock grave (with boots sticking out of the rocks): Here lies the last SOB who tried to tresspass

 

[nv-hunter]

As a rancher and public land hunter , I have to say most of you should just pull up your big girl panties and get over your self. Most rancher have lived and worked thier land for generations. The reason it is still government land is because its marginal land and most likely the government doesnt control the water it's private. Now if you want to change access it will have to be done with deeded access. But what you'll end up with is as many people as on all the other public lands. Funny how everybody wants to curse the rancher but where do they want to hunt? His land because its managed and healthy. My opinion is the first rule that should be changed is the wilderness outfitter law, what total crap.