The perfect Bino quest

[JNDEER]

I have posted a link to another forum, but decided to make a copy of my findings on this website.

During last year’s deer season I had a chance to watch 7 bucks at the last of last light come out below me in a small bowl at 186 yards. Of the 7 bucks I could actually only tell that one had antlers while my hunting partner could see that 7 of the 11 deer below us had antlers on their head. It was at this time that I realized that had I not had already filled both of my tags this would have meant that a potential legal buck could have walked just because of my glass, so a new pair of binoculars where in order.

Like some I started out with what I could afford. Coming from a “road hunting family” we used the old porro prism 8x32 bushnell’s, then as a teen I started to venture into other hunting styles and changed my binocular choice. I went from a Nikon 10x25, to a Bushnell H20 10x42, to a Vortex Diamondback 10x42, then Vortex Razor 10x42 and currently am using a Zen-Ray Prime HD.

My quest like most of use began with the Internet. There are many binoculars available today with lots of reviews from biased and un-biased experts, birders, and average Joes. Sifting through all the reviews can be a challenge. One suggesting that would pop up from time to time was that everyone’s eyes are different and we need to let the binocular pick us. So, this is the route I took. I just spent $10k on a variety of “high end” binoculars from Cabela’s, knowing that I have 60 days to return them (I double checked that in the store too) in hopes of finding which ones work best for me and returning the rest. One thing to keep in mind is that I have the money to buy any one of these, so $$ is not an issue and I have zero loyalty to any brand.

I am no expert when it comes to binocular terminology. So this review will be from an average Joe who plans on just telling you what I see through them with my eyes. It should be noted that I wear glasses. I am not blind and barely passed the DMV vision test, but I always have my glasses regardless.
As I have been playing with them for the last 48 hours I have been noticing a lot and I figured it would be best to write up what I see each night as I compare them in different situations instead of writing one review.

So I will start with how I selected my binoculars. First obviously they had to be at cabela’s. When I went into the Reno store I had the associate pull out all 10x42 binos of the following: Conquest HD, Ultravid HD, Razor HD, El Swarovision, SLC HD, Cabela’s Euro HD. I got both elbows on the counter and picked out a small sign hanging inside of a wooden canoe they had on the wall. The sign was on the upper half and was in the shadow and I was focused on the writing. It was about 50 or so yards and I wanted to see if I could eliminate any of them right out of the gate. Going back and forth I found the Razor HD would not focus well and I could not get the diopter to adjust right. I had him pull out another pair just to see if it was the bino and my eyes or just that bino. It turned out to be that bino and the next pair adjusted fine. The Conquest HD and surprisingly (at least to me) the Ultravid HD would not focus well despite how much I played with the diopter and going back and forth from them to others that did adjust well. I had him take those two away and we then took the remaining four outside to see if I could remove any from the list. It was sunny outside and a little breezy. I sat on the ground and put my elbows to my knees and proceeded to glass up a power tower that was about 1 mile away (that is what the associate told me). At the base of the tower were three small metal boxes and the middle one had a yellow sign on it. I did my best to focus on that sign. Immediately I could tell that the Razors were picking up the heat waves really bad compared to the other three. The others showed little to no heat waves while glassing. The three were very close in focusing on the sign as far as clarity of the sign and clarity of what was around it. I then went to looking under a tree that was on the same hill and tried to focus on a large bolder in the shade under the tree. Again all three were very good and with a little more adjusting I got the Razors to work ok, but they still showed the heat waves. With that I decided to purchase all of these and take them home to do some real testing in low light and hopefully on some game. While in Reno I also went to Scheel’s and was able to check out the Victory HT. In the store I was impressed with them, so when I went back to Reno on my way home I had them order me these as well.

---note--- 99% of the time I glass putting the binos on a stick, my elbows on my knees or standing. This is how I am testing the binos..

Night 1- behind my yard there is an oak tree (I am facing west) at about 80 or so yards away. I sat on my deck and as light faded I went from bino to bino looking at a small twig in the middle of the tree that was skylined as there was a hole through the leaves. The performance was impressive from all of them. The El impressed me most as not only was could I see the twig well, but I everything around it was crisp and clear too. The others (Victory’s should arrive on 5/10) could focus well on the twig, but did not show the surrounding leaves as crisp as the El’s.

Night 2- I decided to put all of the binos on a tripod and make sure the diopter was set the best I could get it. Due to rain and cloudy weather I could not get out to a local hill to do some long distance outside glassing. I elected to use the same tree again, but this time I found a small grey colored branch closest to me with the remaining of the tree behind it, giving a nice dark back drop. Going back and forth with the binos the razors performed better than the night before (I did make a diopter adjustment on them) and probably performed as well as the SLC and El. Again, just through my eyes and focusing only on that one light colored branch. Surprisingly the Euro’s performed the best and when I could barely make out the branch with the others, I could still see it looking through the Euro’s. The El’s kept everything around the branch very clean and crisp looking, but when I tried to just stare and focus on the branch it faded with the other three bino’s.



Some of my initial thoughts thus far are:
1-You can make out a difference in bino's at a store, but last and first light tell a new story.
2-You will never know how good or bad a bino is unless you have others to compare it to at the same time.

 

[JNDEER]

Night 3 – I finally got out to a local hill near my house where I could glass from 0- about 1 mile in terrain very similar to what I hunt in. The hill holds deer so it was a plus as I could actually use them for their intended purpose. I glassed an east and west facing slope hill from .5 hours before sunset until dark. I will say there is a HUGE difference in glassing from in store, to outside the store in daylight, to glassing in your neighborhood and finally to actual hunting style situation glassing. Each time I glassed I put the binos in order of which ones were “top” during that session and each time they changed. I glassed leaning against my vehicle or putting my elbows on the door and roof to stabilize the image. Some initial things I noticed last night was that the Vortex were bright, but for some reason the diopter adjustment needed to be moved again. I tried to fiddle with it, but it was problematic. It was breezy and with that and the Vortex being light weight made it harder to stabilize on the image. So even though it was clear, the image would bounce causing it to be harder to get a great clear crisp image of the button buck I was looking at (he was about 300 yards away). The vortex focus adjustment is really smooth, but very fast. It goes from extremely blurry to crystal clear and blurry again in a small adjustment. The Cabelas and EL’s were extremely similar in the appearance looking through the glass. The main difference from first to last light was that the EL’s hold a clean crisp image in the whole FOV, were as the cabelas lacks the crispness all the way to the edges of the FOV. The center of the FOV image in both the EL and Euro’s were identical in how crisp the image was, however there was a slight increase in brightness to the EL’s..it was very slight and I had to go back and forth quickly to notice it. Both have a very similar speed on the focus wheel. The Euros are a tad bit stiffer and they hold a clear image much longer while turning the wheel. One thing about the EL I noticed was that because of the longer tube configuration while I was holding it for a longer period of time I noticed a very slight bounce in the image and it was due to the way I had to hold it in my hand while glassing. I continued to glass the small button buck (he had about 3”) until last legal hunting light. During the last 15 minutes of light I noticed the Euro’s got a tad darker in the FOV (glassing an east facing slope with overcast skies), but still had a crisp image. The El’s held out until about 7 minutes of legal light before they too started to get darker, but again the whole FOV was still crisp. When I say crisp I believe I am referring to the lack of CA on the edges. Within the last 5 minutes of legal light is when the button bucks “buttons” became more of a bump on his head and with the EL and Euro’s I could not make out extreme detail of the buttons (like how tall or wide they were). Now for the SLC HD’s, from the first time I have ever looked through them to do a quick comparison in store they have always seemed brighter than any of the other binoculars. I believe this is because the EL’s have extra layering on the glass for the field flattener (what I read online) which cause it to be a tad darker. In my backyard I ranked the EL’s to have the edge over the SLCs but glassing the deer it was the other way around. The SLC’s hold a crisp image throughout the whole FOV. They also have a sort of “pop” to the image while you glass. The focus wheel is less than desirable. It is stiff on the outer extremes and kind of has a hick-up when you leave the extreme and move the wheel into the sweet spot. When you get into it sweet spot (clear focus from ranges of like 200-1000+ yards) it is very smooth and quick. The time it is in the sweet spot is just a little longer then the Vortex. At 5 minutes left of light I was still able to see the button bucks “bumps” very well and could see they still appeared to be 3” and about 1” wide. I was very impressed. At about last light I glassed over on a west facing slope which was about a mile away. Under an oak tree there was about a 3” diameter grey branch under the tree on the ground I found earlier in the glass session. The Euro’s were ever so slight tad bit less clear then the EL’s, but it was extremely slight. The SLC because they were still very bright showed the branch with still great detail compared to the other two.

Another thing I noticed about them was that when I glassed up a deer at about a mile away the actual size of the deer through the Euros was smaller than what I was seeing through the EL’s and the SLC’s. The size difference was nothing extreme, but still smaller. When the sun set I was still able to make out a buck at a mile away on the west facing slope with yellow grass as his backdrop with the Euro’s, EL and SLC. The bucks rack was a spike, but was wide and right along the line of the top of his ears.

I will wait until I get the Zeiss Victory HT to compare it to the others to see how it stacks up

I pulled out the Razors again to attempt to set the diopter. Before I put them on the tri-pod and used my credit card to focus on at a distance of about 20 feet. I did it again last night, but used an object at about 75 feet. I found that the diopter adjustment changed from where it was inside Cabelas, to where I had it two days ago, to where it is set now. This is the same kind of issue I am having with the Zen’s. I don’t know what causes it, but have a guess. My last optometrist visit resulted in some weird data about my eyes. I have some kind of over eye dominants issue. When I use both eyes the adjustments to get my vision clear is set one way, when the doctor blocks my right eye and I can only see with my left, the adjustment changes for just that eye and the same goes for my right eye. I guess it is not too uncommon, but he was surprised at the results we were getting while he was testing my eyes. Whether or not the Zens and Razor’s are just not able to compensate for my issue, I don’t know. The previous Diamondbacks and original Razor’s showed no signs of this issue.

 

[JNDEER]

I wanted to touch more on the Leica’s. Like I stated before both the Leica, Conquest HD and Razors had issues in store getting the diopter adjusted properly. I figured for a bino to cost as much as the new Ultravid HD’s that they should not show that kind of issue out of the gate and that is the only reason I did not ask the Associate at cabelas to try another pair, like I did for the razors. The only reason I wanted to try another pair of Razors was simply for their warranty and in hopes of finding a pair that I could at least give a fair shot at comparing them to the others I have chosen. The same goes for the Conquest HD. I fiddled with both the conquest and Leica for a good 5 minutes and after that, I just gave up as the other bino’s did not present the same problem I was getting with these binos.

I suppose I just wanted to clarify this so that people don’t think that these binos are not as good as the others as I was not able to actually test them the way I wanted to. It could simply be an issue with my vision and the way the binos diopter works, type of glass coatings, the way the internal mechanisms function……I just don’t know. When I let my brother use the Razors for a bit (during daylight hours) he said that they adjusted just fine and seem to hold a great image. So that leads me to believe that the issue with my vision when using those binos and not the binos themselves.

I am about 99% free hand glassing. I do about 50-60% putting the bino's on a stick or whatever I can find to stabilize the image and the other 40-50% of the time I am sitting with my elbows on my knees or standing if my butt starts to go asleep. I have been putting some thought into the FOV and amount of CA seen on the outer edges. What I observed was that the Swaro’s showed no CA (to my eyes) throughout the whole FOV, there may have been very little CA but it would have been in the outer 1% of the FOV if any. Again I am using the term CA to explicitly mean who crisp the image is to my eyes through the binos (I believe that is its actual definition, but I did not look it up).

Multiple times glassing the button buck I could see on the bottom left edge of the “circle” a red winged black bird on some bushes. Even though it was in my peripheral vision, it was very clear and crisp on the edges. When I did this with the Euros I would say that the circle or FOV started showing CA on the outer ¼ of the cirlce. It was gradual and not just a wall going from very little CA to considerably more. I noticed this as I would move the outer edge of the FOV from side to side keeping my focus on the deer but also seeing the red winged black bird. When I say considerably more don’t assume I mean there was a lot. It was very apparent to my eyes because I was going back and forth from El’s, SLC and the Euros. If you only had the Euro’s and just used them I really don’t think it would be this apparent.

I would think that if you put them on tripods there would be differences, but nothing extreme from what I have seen thus far. The Vortex I feel would show a huge difference on a tripod compared to holding them in the hand just because of their weight. It was very hard to stabilize them in hand.
For ergonomics all of them have pluses and minuses. The Razors are very small in my hands and it is tougher to stabilize the image. The Euro’s are bigger and the wheel is stiffer. I actually, without realizing it, was using two fingers to move the wheel. It was not an issue, that is just what felt comfortable to my hands as I was glassing around with them. The Els are longer and touch more of my whole hand. The SLC are the in between the Razor and Euro’s. Shorter but also thicker and fit well in my hand.

I am more concerned with how well they perform for using them in the field. I honestly think that over time, with most any product really, you just adapt to them and they become a part of you. I notice all these small details now because I go back and forth between each a lot, but when I actually just hold one for a while (like a few minutes) it is like it is already an appendage.

The Victory HT had finally arrived. I went out immediately to try them out and compare them to the others. I had read on a birding forum comments from someone at Zeiss that these were “made with the hunter in mind” and so this had me excited to put them in use. It was windy while glassing so seeing how well the binos held in the hand and how well the image stabilized would be an easy test. At first I pulled out the Victory’s and started to glass (this was after setting the diopter at home). I started to pan around the hill and immediately as the wind was blowing hard down the hill hitting me square in the face I could tell the image was very bouncy. I figured it was just the wind and quickly changed to the EL’s to check if it was the wind. Nope, the EL’s held just fine. I went back to the Victory’s and when I held them back in my hand I could feel that they are very weight forward heavy. The barrels are very large and require my whole hand and palm to hold them. Because they are so heavy near the eyes and so light at the ends it makes for a bino that is very hard to hold steady if you glass while standing. I then tried leaning on the vehicle with my elbows resting on the hood. This helped a lot and I could then compare the clarity of them to the EL’s. So far it appears that they are very clear and crisp just like the EL’s and even though I said I would not discount a bino because of the ergonomics of it, I have to say that I have changed my mind. Everytime I went back to the HT’s they just felt bulky, awkward, and very unbalanced in my hands. It would take some exceptional glass, something far better than what I see in the Swaro’s, for me to have to live with these characteristic flaws. These flaws may not be seen by others, but it was immediately felt by my when compared any of the other binoculars to the HT’s and it was not something I liked. Because of this I did not spend a lot of time looking for details of how well the glass actually is, but from what I saw glassing up until about 15 minutes of last light they were right up with the EL’s and would probably take some detailed time to see any major differences between the two.

I have noticed that the EL, HT and Euro’s all have a very similar appearance through the glass compared to the Razors and SLC. It is tough to describe the differences between them, but for the EL, HT and Euros they have a darker shade or tent throughout the whole site picture. This is not to say they don’t gather enough light, but just that the image is toned down some compared to the Razor and SLC. The Razors are almost over bright and can produce a glare, not on the glass itself, but the objects you look at. The SLC are very bright as well, but I have never seen the type of glare that I sometimes get while using the Razors.

 

[JNDEER]

The night I used the HT’s for the first time I also looked more closely at the razors and euro’s. Even with the wind the razors seemed to hold better than they did the previous outings. This also could be because of the diopter adjustment I did, again. As soon as the sun set I glassed the top of the eastern facing hill and the Razors produced halo’s at the bottom of the glass and it prevented me from seeing. I believe this was because I wear glasses. When I pulled them down and glassed at the bottom of the mountain it was fine. The euro’s did not produce this glare I was getting while looking at the top of the mountain. At last light I was glassing under an oak about a mile away on a west facing slope. Under the oak there are two grey colored branches back and under the canopy of the tree. The razors showed these branches clearer, but the image was tough to stabilize even having my elbows resting on the hood of the vehicle. The Euro’s were not quite as crisp, but I could clearly see the two branches and even though the edges were not as well defined as what I was seeing with the razors, the image was not bouncy and it allowed me to see the branches and under the tree a little better.

I had a few hours tonight to go back out and look through the binos at the same location I had been going to. Tonight there was no breeze to start and clear blue bird skies. I first put the binos that I am leaning towards on the crooked horn to get a real life feeling of them on while glassing. With no breeze I found the Zeiss more user friendly. In fact for a while I almost was doubting my choice of the pair I had strapped on. While glassing through the Zeiss I reminds me of looking through a super clear sliding glass door. Like you don’t know the glass is there, it is a smooth appearance for the eyes and very easy for glassing. This revelations were determined glassing a bachelor group of some of CA finest “forked horn nation” specimens. 2 spikes, 2 forky’s and one with balls on the end. All were about 250 yards from me in the yellow grass on the east facing slope.

Because my muscles were very fatigued from working today after a while it became more difficult to stabilize the binos. Some kids had come by and spooked the deer I was looking at and one of the bigger forky’s decided he needed to run and run and run. He finally starting to walk along the hill and was about 1200 yards away or so. I quickly went back and forth holding the HT and SLC. The HT I could tell he had antlers and could see that the tops looked “bigger” but that was about it. It was clear and crisp, I just could not stabilize the image and it bounced around. When I went to the SLC’s I could make out the tops had small forks while just leaning against my jeep. When I put the SLC on my door to get them steady it was very apparent he was a forky. When I tried to put the HT on the jeep door they really started to bounce around. Trying to stabilize the image of the antlers was too difficult and I could not make out the forks. These were small forks as he is still growing, probably something like 2” or so. If the Zeiss were on a tripod a lot more and less just in the hands glassing, the ease looking through them on the eyes I think would be very nice. Edge to edge clarity and crispness between the EL, SLC and HT is almost too difficult to distinguish. The EL/HT show more yellow then the others and I will talk about that some more in a bit. This is really only noticeable if you go back and forth quickly between the binos. If not, your eyes would have to be sensitive to it. The SLC’s continue to impress me with their ability to be not only bright but show the images very clear and crsip. The HT and EL have the larger FOV and show images to be bigger the the SLC’s. Tonight I was using the SLC and glassing the bedded buck at 200 some yards and at 838 (legal last light where I was at, Sunset was at 810) looking on the east facing slope from the valley floor up I could still see the small forks on his head while glassing free hand.

Some side information. One night last week when I was heading out to go try the Zeiss again I found that my crankshaft pulley was broken on my jeep and needed to be replaced. At first I did not know it was it and the knocking noise had me thinking I could have thrown a rod. When this happened some of my thoughts were “well there goes my high end bino’s, I got to settle for something less.” The Jeep is now fixed and running smooth, but I figured I would talk about the cheaper binos some more as if I would have had to potentially buy them. Yes, this means that based on what I have seen they are not optically as good as the more expensive binos when looking through them with my eyes.

Euro vs. Razor. Like I said before the Razors are very very bright. Again tonight glassing up the hill I got that bad glare. I tried moving it around my eyes some, but no dice. I then took off my glasses and pulled out the cups. No glare! So, if you wear glasses be warned that glassing towards the sun or a east facing ridge after sunset may cause glassing issues. After some time the razors, despite being so light, can be adaptable to the hands for glassing. The last 15-20 minutes of light the FOV is still very bright, but I found it harder to stabilize the image. If you could (ie on a tripod) then they would probably be ok for all intents and purposes. They have the brightness of the SLC (not necessarily the detailed clarity, just specifically how bright the images appear) but also show some aspects of the EL/HT. I was glassing a south facing hill with three drainages running east to west. The EL/HT/Razors did not show the depth and curves of the top of the nulls going up and over each little drainage. This hill was nothing but yellow grass. The yellow really stood out on all three binos. Not in a bad way, just very noticeable going back and forth compared to the others. The Euros and SLC showed the rolling nulls and you could see the depth of field as the distance changed from the first null to the top of the hill. They also did not show the yellow as much and I could see that there were grey and tan colored areas on the hill. The Euros are not as bright (again this is just saying the FOV doesn’t appear as bright, but images are very similar) as the razors, but from what I could tell they hold a crisp and clear image a little further to the edges then the Razors. I mostly glass by looking in the general middle of the FOV, so clarity to the edges is not a huge issue, but from what I have seen these past nights is that it makes glassing easier on the eyes if you maximize the clarity and crispness in the whole FOV. This does not mean that cheap binos won’t work for glassing because I have killed animals using cheaper binos and have glassed for hours with no issues. Trying to explain what I mean by “easier” is hard and it may have to be something you need to experience for yourself. The Euros fell way better in my hands and no matter if I am hand holding them or leaning on the hood of the jeep the image stabilizes very nicely. When glassing to the top of the hill as the sun is setting I get no glare with my glasses. They were about the same in clarity for the last 15 or so minutes of light. For both binos when I say they were the same I was looking at the buck with the balls on the top of his antlers bedded in the yellow grass 209 yards away. Both binos could see the antlers and could see there was a “bump” on the tops of the antler, but if there was a small fork on one side or not I think it would have been difficult to tell based on what I was seeing tonight.

 

[JNDEER]

I have not talked a lot about the Primes (my original pair). Despite me going to be putting these up for sale here and other sites I will not sugar coat my findings. These are not high end glass, period. After I purchased them I found out they were better then the Diamondbacks and original Razors as that is what I was comparing them to. It is very noticeable while comparing them to the Swaro’s that they lack qualities and tonight I tried to see what exactly that was. I think what I am noticing is that they lack a little of all the qualities, LOL. They are not as bright as any of the other pairs. The biggest thing I notice is that they do not hold crisp clear images as far as the Razors or Euros, this is the big difference. The middle of the FOV is fine (not as crisp as the Razor or Euros, but close), but from the middle area out it is not crisp or clear compared to the others. It starts loosing detail in the middle of the FOV earlier then the others. Probably right after the sun sets (again glassing toward the east slope from the bottom, so it is actually a little darker). But you can still see the “bucks“. Around 20 or so minutes of last light is when the spike bucks appeared to just have “things” growing out of their heads and not actual spikes. I think this may be something to do with my eyes/glasses and diopter as when my brother was comparing them to the Razor/SLC the other night he was not seeing everything as unclear as I was. Not to say they were as good as the SLC or Razors, just maybe not as unclear as what I am describing.

I will be returning them next week. If anyone has anything they would like me to look at before then, just let me know.

Here are some final thoughts on this long winded review. It is clear there is a jump in the optical performance between a $300-$600, $900-$1200 and the $2k binocular. For some the differences will not justify the means, but for others it will. We all have differences not only in vision, in our hunting styles and the total days afield hunting and these are what I feel will make the difference in binocular choice. There are huge jumps in not only the optical performance but ergonomics of the binoculars from the $500 to the $1000 binocular. If I were to look at upgrading and could not justify or afford a $2k binocular I would be trying to get my hands on as many of the mid-range (greater than $700) binoculars I could. The jump is so great that I would not be wasting my time with the lower end binoculars. I saw better edge to edge clarity and better brighter sharper images not only during the daylight but during low light as well. Testing in stores, outside of stores and even in your neighborhood will NOT produce the same results as what you will be seeing in the field hunting unless you’re an optic expert, IMO. I changed my top end binocular choice in every viewing location until I finally settled on what is best for my hunting terrain and conditions. The binoculars I choose are the SLC HD’s and I can honestly say that I do not think I will ever need to upgrade them again

 

[Sawfish]

JNDEER Thank you for conducting this research, and taking the time to post the results. I have tried Kahles, Swarovski, Leupold, Burris and a few others. What I really wanted was a combination binocular and rangefinder. For many years, there was only a very narrow and very expensive selection. Three years ago, on the recommendation of a very respected hunting acquaintance, I bought a pair of Bushnell Fusions, and have been very pleased with them. They were not cheap, but were much less expensive than the leaders in that field. In the words of my hunting acquaintance: "they are not as good as Leica, but they are 95% as good, and cost one third as much". Worth looking at in my opinion.

 

[greyghost]

I agree.

In my opinion the new SLC is the best 42mm hunting binocular currently available all things considered.
(I own a 8.5x42 Swarovision, new 10x42 SLC ,previous 10x42 was a Zeiss Victory FL).

Like it better than the Zeiss Victory HT. SLC has a larger sweet spot. On paper the HT is brighter but in the field it not enough to notice.

Leica is a little behind the times compared to Zeiss and Swarovski in brightness and handling of CA.

Only thing the Swarovision has over the SLC is perfectly sharp images to the edge of the FOV which is not needed anyway. The sweet spot of the SLC approaches 90% and with a little pincushion distortion added it eliminates the rolling ball distortion you get with a Swarovision when panning. Otherwise I would rate them optically on par with each other.

I like the ergonomics of the SLC over the Swarovision and Victory HT also.

The fact that the SLC is $500 or so less than the Swarovision and hundreds less than the HT is a bonus also.

I predict there will be many a new SLC in hunters hands in the future.