First pack trip, backcountry and horses

RICMIC · May 17, 2015

Welcome to the forum Hoytfanatic. If you have followed the forum for the last year, all of your questions would have been addressed, but it would take a book or two to answer them all on this thread. One advantage you have using horses as opposed to backpacking in, is the ability to bring more "stuff" to make camp comfortable. However, unless you have a whole string of packhorses, don't get carried away. I would suggest getting some butt in the saddle time before you make the big trip to The Bob. I'm sure you will get some advice here, but search the whole forum and the true meaning of life will be revealed.

ivorytip · May 17, 2015

I really don't think ricmic was being being rude at all, im sorry you feel that way. if you've been on other forums you will know the level conduct that's usulay had on this forum. sure we get a few nut cases but they don't last long. we are all human and all have our own opinions. we all come from different aspects of life. some of us are struggling to get by, some of us doing well some filthy rich and some of us that just don't give a crap about any of that. but at end of day, this forum is by far the best forum for seeking and sharing all western hunting questions. id share a beer or a camp with a lot of the fellas ive met on this forum, and gals if was ok

but its not... ha. i hope to see you around here more. good luck with the bob marshal hunt, looking forward to reading about it.

Brianh · May 17, 2015

I rode into the Bob a few years ago but hadn't ridden a horse for many years. After 8 hrs in the saddle, I had a sore on my back where my pants wore off the skin. Get in a little riding before you go or just that ride into the Bob could make it miserable for the rest of your trip. Its a beautiful place. Don't sweat the small stuff. Get a good sleeping bag and pad. The rest will fall in place as you prepare for the trip.

sneakypete · May 17, 2015

I agree with Ivorytip , get in the saddle, a good bag and pad and you'll make do like All hunters do! I have a B.C. hunt coming up and I'll be getting my backside in the saddle before that hunt.

Tim McCoy · May 17, 2015

I echo the get in the saddle early if possible and equally importantly learn from one who knows how to adjust the stirrups for proper fit. Proper fit will mitigate a bunch of soreness issues. Vary your position in the saddle where possible, fully sit on saddle and rest legs and even remove them from the stirrups for a stretch, stand to rest butt, get off and walk a bit...by day two you should be broken in... Have fun!

Brianh · May 17, 2015

Hoytfanatic said:
Thanks everyone! I'm not looking for any one persons how to Manual, just a pointer or two. I appreciate the advice on my butt calisthenics I will definitely take steps to rectify...(see what I did there) ha! the rear end before the hunt.

As far as Ricmic, I apologize if I was on the defensive.

I still welcome any ideas on The Bob!

Brianh how did your trip end up besides the saddle sores?

It was a fishing trip. And some of the best Cutthroat fishing I've had. Even caught one over 20". Would like to go back there some day and bow hunt for elk. Really neat country.

RICMIC · May 17, 2015

Hoytfanatic; I'm not sure where you were coming from, as you entirely missed my point about following the forum. I am far from being the expert that many on this forum are, but I do have a lifetime of wilderness camping under my belt, starting off with a 3 month stint alone in a wilderness area with no food or tent when I was 17 (yeah, it was planned.) Horses add a whole new element to a western hunt, but those big boys are fully capable of killing you without even trying, and sometimes they seem to do it on purpose. I have never had much of a problem with being saddle sore, but I have been on several hunts where others became unable to ride because of it. I think that the pre-season saddle time is important to get comfortable working with horses and mules. They seem to know when you don't know what you are doing, and try to be the boss.
You can ride a horse with a small pack, but the majority of your gear would have to be on pack horses. Unlike the western movies, you do need to bring some supplemental feed for the critters (grain, alfalfa pellets, etc.) Hay is usually not an option as it is too bulky and has to be locally purchased or certified as weed free. One of my trips was with 3 guys and 2 horses. We used saddle panniers, and led the horses to our camp. We could ride the horses from camp, but mostly hunted on foot, and used the horses to pack the elk out.
When you have a critter that can carry several pounds, I don't see much point in limiting the food to freeze dried stuff. Have some lightweight meals, but also some real food that you can fortify yourself with at the end of the day. You can buy non-perishible food off the shelf that is inexpensive and far more calorie dense and satisfying.
Well, that's a start. I have never been to the Bob, so someone else will have to provide some info there.

RICMIC · May 17, 2015

Sorry, I just caught a word that I left out. Horses can carry several HUNDRED pounds, not just several pounds. If that was their limit then you would need a better horse. Of course, even a crappy horse would feed a couple guys for a long time. I almost shot a mule on my last trip after he dumped me in the river....better than some of the spots we had been earlier.

mntnguide · May 17, 2015

The less stock you can take the better...more stock means more time caring for them. Stock is the #1 priority over your hunting when you are living and relying on them in the backcountry. They need to be adequately grazed, watered and watched. If they have just come off eating hay all summer and you put them into the hills with wet grass meadows, you very much need to pay attention to them as they can Colic pretty easily. Its not a fun deal to put down a horse due to colic. . They can be a blessing and a curse. one day you love them...the next you are spending all day trying to find them! haha. I have lived with horses and mules in the hills all summer and fall the past 8 years, so im speaking from experience. If it is just you and your buddy, try to minimize gear as best as possible and keep your stock #s low. Hopefully he is a experienced packer to an extent, the biggest issues I have seen from DIY horseback hunters in the wilderness is getting far into the hills and losing their horses, as well as having major wrecks because they did not know how to safely pack a load. The Bob is a pretty remarkable place from what I have heard, and I plan on one day exploring it from the back of a horse as well. Good luck.

mntnguide · May 17, 2015

On my pack trips, i had anywhere from 25-35 head of stock with me, and one horse i brought was strictly a wrangle horse who i tied up all night and would go find my herd in the morning with if they didnt come in on there own...we had a similar deal at hunting camp, but on a much larger scale. We had 2 full-time wranglers that would spend hours finding the 70 or so head of stock every morning in the mountains...Now that is not something you guys will most likely be doing by having your horses loose at night. . But yes i highly suggest always having at least 1 or 2 horses tied up when grazing others. Figure out which horse is the dominant one of the herd...usually a big mare but not always. Each herd has a different dynamic. Its good that you have horse knowledge, that will make everything much smoother. Remember to always tie them above a branch if possible, because if you head off hunting all day and dont, they can work a knot down to the bottom and all hell can break loose when nobody is around. You dont want to be walking back to camp cause your horse left ya!! ive been there. So my #1 rule is...no matter how well i know the horse, I dont trust them a bit.

RICMIC · May 18, 2015

It looks like mtguide is the go-to guy for the in depth answers on this type of hunt. I would suspect that many of the DIY types on the forum are backpackers, and that is still my preferred way to hunt. I am more in the experienced novice category when it comes to horse packing. I have been on a number of guided trips, and they gave me a comfort level with horses in the mountains before we rented some for an elk hunt in CO. After that trip, I swore I wouldn't do it again unless we had a non-hunting designated wrangler in camp. We left our horses on a high-line, as with only two horses and limited experience, we weren't comfortable hobbling them. We did lead them to a grassy area to feed and water, but they will eat all day if you let them.

25contender · May 18, 2015

The Bob can be a difficult place to hunt. I hunted it many years ago and it is very heavily timbered and somewhat difficult glass. You will have to pack in a good ways. I had a friend who did a week trip last year during early season and they never saw or heard a Elk. It is vast country and you will have to put some serious boot work in. That being said there are some great bulls in the Bob. Also dont forget this is prime Grizz Country as well.
This bull was shot out of the Bob by a friend on one of our trips. He has never been scored but is somewhere in the mid to upper 300s

ScottR · May 18, 2015

I would also set the tone with every horse if you have the chance. If you have the opportunity to load them into the trailer and put them in their place with a lead rope beforehand you can probably save a headache or two. The more horses in the group that know they have to mind you, the better.

2rocky · May 18, 2015

HF couple questions for you.
What is your Horse background? Do you have your own saddle?
Do you have a chance to ride before the hunt?

Hoytfanatic said:
In camp, on the trail, and on the actual hunt. What I mean is what is the preferred method for.... Say your horses, do you tie them to a tree when your hunting?
Tied to a tree above wither height. Or your partner or you take your horse to meeting place at end of the ridge or draw to meet while you hunt your way down.
In camp? How is the grazing availability? Electric fence, hobbles? How's the water crossings?
Depends on the Horse. Hobbles are good if you have worked with the horse before with them. High line at night. Graze during slow midday.
How to pick good camp sites?
Close enough to water to water horses, but far enough to be 200ft away. Good live trees to tie a highline on. away from dead standing trees that could fall in a windstorm. Level spot for tents.

How do you determine what stuff to bring? I mean I would like to be as feasibly comfortable as possible given the nature of the task at hand, but I don't want to hire a dozen Sherpas to get a bunch of crap into the backcountry.
You should be able to keep your personal gear under 50 pounds. pack in multiple small duffel bags to more easily distribute weight in packs.
What kinds of things make camp life more comfortable?
best camp furniture is an elk quarter because you were out of camp hunting. Make camp too comfortable and you won't leave.

Do I need a cot? Or should a guy just lash one together when we make camp outta some canvas?
no cot neccessary on a pack in hunt. splurge on a good inflatable pad. Not an air bed.
Food? Just the ole stand by? Mnt. House and jerky?
Pre made and frozen meals are easy when packed with dry ice. Mountain house and a backpacking stove is good for lunches 10 miles form camp or when dark finds you packing out a bull.

Pointers on actually being able to kill something... Elk, mulleys,? Deep country, dark timber, drainages, hiding in plain sight? High country? Lots of glass time?
covering country is key. sneak and peak over ridges. gotta find 'em before you can kill 'em

Lighting...headlamps? Lanterns? Batteries.
always have a head lamp and a gas lantern for camp

Thanks to all! I'll take all the free help I can get!

2rocky · May 19, 2015

Recommended Reading:

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270 [/URL]

http://www.amazon.com/Horses-Hitches-Rocky-Trails-Wilderness/dp/1626360294/ref=pd_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0J3D55PAN5VPXQKSDWK1

First pack trip, backcountry and horses

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