Airplane Scouting

[kesand72]

It was suggested to me that I hire a pilot for an hour or two to do a little aerial scouting of a new elk unit before season.
Has anyone tried this?
How much would it cost to do this in central Wyoming, and is it worth it?
Can you go low enough to actually see animals?

 

[Theist]

I hired a guide in nm a couple years ago and he flew my unit twice if I hired him to guide me. I just wish I was in the plane to learn more about the area. I found the elk after he took off with another hunter 8 miles away. Never closed the deal cause there was only 2 days left. You got the money to have them scout by plane, u might as well get in there and learn the area from a google perspective. Yes u can see animals if their a good pilot.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

I know a few guys that have done it. I considered it too. My bro in law is a pilot. It would only cost fuel for the plane. I think it's a great way to scout.

 

[Don K]

I was lucky enough to be able to tag along on a flight in New Mexico. You can see animals with no problem if the weather is good enough. Cloud cover and rain clouds really mess up visibility. I carried my GPS and marked some locations of animals as we flew. I think the biggest advantage was learning the unit a bit better but if I didn't have any extra cash sitting around I would not pay for it myself.

The pilot has to watch how low he fly's as he doesn't want to mess up anyone else's hunt up. Also you have to watch the laws in the state you plan on doing this to make sure your legal.

 

[jjenness]

I have done this a few times, and the only thing it cost me was the fuel we used. You will definitely be able to see animals. I have only flown prior to the season opening as I hate when I get buzzed by a plane while hunting so I don't want to do it to someone else.

 

[packer58]

Last summer another Eastmans member and myself flew a couple Nevada units to get the lay of the land and a few GPS coordinates. For me personally, it was a good experience but my prospective of the terrain from the air really didn't do me any good once the hunt started and boots were on the ground.

 

[DryFlyGuy]

I've done it, but just as a perk from work. We fly small aircraft over our hunting areas on the way to visit clients. We are usually too high to see much game, but we definitely peak into some spots that are hard to get into.

 

[WY ME]

I would first do some checking around before flying if I were you. I've been told that it is illegal to fly in order to spot game in Wyoming but that outfitters do it under the guise of looking for lost stock which is legal.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I would first do some checking around before flying if I were you. I've been told that it is illegal to fly in order to spot game in Wyoming but that outfitters do it under the guise of looking for lost stock which is legal.

That's not true. You can spot or scout game by use of an aircraft, but you cannot relay information to anyone on the ground to put them on said game. There is no restriction like AK has that keeps you from hunting the same day you're in the air. I know the law is violated by ranchers and outfitters because I've seen a rancher flying low during the hunting season on his ranch that's leased by a big outfitter and he darn sure wasn't looking for cattle because there weren't any in that whole section of the property. The guy also happens to be a County Commissioner and it's doubtful anything would be done since all he'd have to do is say he was checking stock, fences, or some such other reason. With all the channels that are now available on radios it's doubtlful if a particular conversation would be picked up and if they were smart all they would need is some kind of verbal code so that only the spotter and ground person would know what was being discussed.

 

[WY ME]

You may be right as I have never looked into the legality of it myself. My information actually came from an outfitter who frowned on the practice. The area me and him were talking about was "wilderness" so I'm not sure if the air space laws (i.e. height restrictions) are different over wilderness than over regular forest service land. Flying low over your own private ranch land would certainly be a different deal.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

It should be frowned on by everyone because IMHO it's not a very ethical thing to do since its an unfair advantage to the game and other hunters, especially if it's done during a hunting season. I don't believe there is any difference in the air space restrictions other than not being able to land in a wilderness area. There also may be other public lands that don't have a bonafide legal airstrip where it would also be illegal.

 

[hardstalk]

Oh lord... He said the "E" word. ^

 

[2rocky]

Minimum altitude over BLM is 2000 ft, although some landing is permitted.

7-4-6. Flights Over Charted U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service
Areas

a. The landing of aircraft is prohibited on lands or waters administered by
the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or U.S. Forest
Service without authorization from the respective agency. Exceptions include:

1. When forced to land due to an emergency beyond the control of the operator;
2. At officially designated landing sites; or

3. An approved official business of the Federal Government.

b. Pilots are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2,000 feet above the
surface of the following: National Parks, Monuments, Seashores, Lakeshores,
Recreation Areas and Scenic Riverways administered by the National Park
Service, National Wildlife Refuges, Big Game Refuges, Game Ranges and Wildlife
Ranges administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and Wilderness and
Primitive areas administered by the U.S. Forest Service.

NOTE-
FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-36, Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Flight Near
Noise-Sensitive Areas, defines the surface of a national park area (including
parks, forests, primitive areas, wilderness areas, recreational areas,
national seashores, national monuments, national lakeshores, and national
wildlife refuge and range areas) as: the highest terrain within 2,000 feet
laterally of the route of flight, or the upper-most rim of a canyon or valley.
c. Federal statutes prohibit certain types of flight activity and/or provide
altitude restrictions over designated U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest
Service Areas. These designated areas, for example: Boundary Waters Canoe
Wilderness Areas, Minnesota; Haleakala National Park, Hawaii; Yosemite
National Park, California; and Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, are
charted on Sectional Charts.

d. Federal regulations also prohibit airdrops by parachute or other means of
persons, cargo, or objects from aircraft on lands administered by the three
agencies without authorization from the respective agency. Exceptions include:
1. Emergencies involving the safety of human life; or

2. Threat of serious property loss.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

It should be frowned on by everyone because IMHO it's not a very ethical thing to do since its an unfair advantage to the game and other hunters, especially if it's done during a hunting season. I don't believe there is any difference in the air space restrictions other than not being able to land in a wilderness area. There also may be other public lands that don't have a bonafide legal airstrip where it would also be illegal.

I like what Alaska has. You fly, you don't hunt the same day.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Minimum altitude over BLM is 2000 ft, although some landing is permitted.

The statute you quoted in your post has nothing to do with BLM land administered under authority of the USDA That quote is specific for lands administered by the USFWS, USFS and the NPS.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I like what Alaska has. You fly, you don't hunt the same day.

I'm in 100% agreement with that statement and it's too bad that all states don't go with that rule. It would also need to have the relaying of information from an airborne spotter made illegal and I know some states are now working on that, including the use of unmanned drones.

 

[BKC]

I flew as a student for about 50 hours and, as I remember the rules, the minimum safe altitude in uncongested areas it is 500' AGL. I do know that there is some languge about national parks, wildlife refuge, etc. that may add 500 more feet to this rule? any pilots out there?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I flew as a student for about 50 hours and, as I remember the rules, the minimum safe altitude in uncongested areas it is 500' AGL. I do know that there is some languge about national parks, wildlife refuge, etc. that may add 500 more feet to this rule? any pilots out there?

See post #13 section 3b in the shaded area for your answer.

 

[mntnguide]

"Use of Aircraft to Spot or Locate Wildlife
No person shall use any aircraft to aid in the taking of any Wyoming wildlife, except predatory animals, whether by spotting or locating the wildlife, communicating with any person attempting to take the wildlife, or by providing other aid to any person taking the wildlife within twenty-four (24) hours of being airborne. This shall not apply to commercial, commuter or other aircraft used for the sole purpose of passenger transport."

...From Game and Fish website

Scouting is obviously legal...A definite number of the "Big" bucks from region G area taken by outfitters are spotted in the air during summer..One outfitter, in particular, has a heck of reputation for monster bucks, but he also spends countless hours airborne in August. . To each their own.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Minimum altitude over BLM is 2000 ft, although some landing is permitted.

I don't see BLM anywhere in those restrictions. It doesn't look like the 2000 ft. rule applies there, and that makes sense since BLM lands generally have the loosest motorized rules of any federal agency.

As far as flying for scouting, if I had a plane I would do it as much as I could.

I suppose if it is an unfair advantage, then I guess so is satellite imagery? Game cameras? GPS? headlamps?

I guess what I mean is we all have to draw the line somewhere, and I think a reasonable line is you can't hunt the same day you fly, and you can't use someone flying to birddog game for you. That is how it is in Montana, and it seems reasonable to me. There are landlocked sections of public in MT that can only be accessed by air. I think it is makes sense to access it that way too.