4th Rifle elk in NW CO with my Son

[ashridge]

My son will be 14 in a few weeks, and I am very much wanting to take him on a 4th season rifle hunt for elk in the NW part of CO. I have taken him on an out of state hunt each of the last 2 years (Wisconsin waterfowl 2 years ago, Merriams turkey in Nebraska last Spring & Wyoming antelope last Fall), and I'm slowly working him up to the bigger stuff. He's an experienced whitetail hunter here in Ohio and I'm trying to broaden his horizons. I've elk hunted in Colorado a number of times, but the last time was 12 years ago, and most of my elk hunting in CO was during archery season, not during a late quasi-migration season. I had thought of doing an archery hunt this year, but things didn't work out for that. We will be on our family vacation at that time (in Colorado, actually), and he hasn't gotten his growth spurt and isn't big enough to draw the kind of weight he needs on a bow for elk yet. Probably try to do an archery hunt in 2017.

Anyway, we didn't apply in the draw, so we will be dependent on leftover licenses. Since he is a youth, I figured to buy him a bull tag since it doesn't cost any more for a NR youth than a cow tag does. I was thinking of buying myself a cow tag, just because it's cheaper for a NR adult. Archery is more my thing, definitely, but I figure it'd be silly to be out there in great elk country with my son and not have a tag in my pocket to at least try and bring some meat home.

I have been poring over the CDOW harvest statistics for the last week and my head is swimming with numbers right now. I took 5 years worth of harvest data for 4th rifle season on some of the units I was interested in and averaged them out to narrow things down quite a bit to the ones that had the highest consistent 4th rifle success, for both bull and cow. I understand there's no way to know what percentage of those numbers are from private land kills vs. public land success, but I guess I just have to deal with what info. is available. Obviously, I want there to be the best possible chance for success for my son's sake. Not looking for a trophy bull for him, just a legal bull would put him over the moon I'm sure.

I have called and spoken to one of the "wildlife" people at the Craig Chamber of Commerce, and I also spoke with someone in the CDOW Meeker office. I wasn't asking them to give me an "X" on the map, just a little guidance and feedback on some of the research I have already done over the past week, poring over maps and stats. I'm sorry to say that neither woman I spoke with was extremely helpful. They both seemed like in a hurry to get off the phone, and both essentially said "hunt somewhere between Unit 12 and Maybell" for the 4th rifle season. Well, that's a heck of a huge area! The areas I had previously hunted in Colorado are elsewhere, so I really am not familiar with those units between the Flat Tops and Maybell other than seriously studying maps, satellite photos, and trying to identify public lands that have access. I have also been spending some time on the Colorado interactive Hunting Atlas on-line, and if that's accurate, that will probably help some.

I could use some help on just general strategy for doing a "migration" type hunt like this in that area. I have several units that I picked out based on my research, and am looking at a few areas in particular in those units. I've spent a ton of time the past week doing research so I don't necessarily want to say in this public post what areas I want to ask about, but I wouldn't mind being able to bounce some ideas of particular areas off of someone familiar with some of those units N/NW of the Flat Tops for a 4th season hunt. Anyone who would be willing to help me out on that, please drop me a PM and I can tell you what I've got in mind, see if you have any input on my early plans so far.

On a side note, as I mentioned previously, my family is taking our vacation in late September in north-central/north-west Colorado, so I probably could at least do a "drive-by" of some of those areas to see what the "lay of the land" looks like. Won't have time to get out and do any scouting in September, but will have a good pair of binos within arms reach while we're on the road/touring.

 

[amoor983]

I have been doing the same thing (with no experience). As far as public vs. private, the parks and wildlife has the map where you can zoom to any unit and it shows land ownership. http://ndismaps.nrel.colostate.edu/index.html?app=HuntingAtlas . it also shows things like summer/ winter range, migration and winter concentration. I think these tools will be useful for picking a unit. On google earth you can pick out things like peaks, rivers, drainages, water, green/lush areas, perhaps aspen vs. evergreen stands, meadows, perhaps sage and grasslands, bare rock, snow, roads, it gives elevations, you can calculate percent slope and distances, etc, all which can be helpful for remote scouting.

 

[Slugz]

I was gonna recommend what AM 983 said....the overlays are very useful and are 90% very very accurate. I spend a good deal of time up that way and I think to say the timing the past 5 years, 4th season rifle really isn't a " migration hunt". I go with the general rule of thumb that the snow needs to touch their bellys and or they cant scratch/dig for feed before large numbers start bunching and moving to the true winter ranges/areas. 4th season rifle success pretty much all over Colorado is gonna be determined by glassing them up over the break between seasons and figuring the valley/spot they got bumped into due to hunter pressure. My honey hole for 4th season cow is 2miles off the beaten path, above non accessible ground, south facing and usually has about 12" or less of snow with bare paths and good forage. Hope that helps.

 

[SGM]

Hunting 4th season in the Flat Tops is pretty much out of the question due to snow. I have hunted the Meeker area and Unit 12/23/24 for 30 years so I have some experiance in the area. Oak Ridge SWA outside of Meeker can be good for late season as can Jensen SWA. Another place would be in Unit 211 around the Wilson Oil fields. Lots of public acess and the weather should still be decent. Another spot can be just NE of Meeker off of Yellow Jacket Pass road. This is higher elevation so depending on the weather this area can be good or impassable. Hope this helps and does not add to your headache. Send me a PM if you have questions.

 

[ashridge]

I have been doing the same thing (with no experience). As far as public vs. private, the parks and wildlife has the map where you can zoom to any unit and it shows land ownership. http://ndismaps.nrel.colostate.edu/index.html?app=HuntingAtlas . it also shows things like summer/ winter range, migration and winter concentration. I think these tools will be useful for picking a unit. On google earth you can pick out things like peaks, rivers, drainages, water, green/lush areas, perhaps aspen vs. evergreen stands, meadows, perhaps sage and grasslands, bare rock, snow, roads, it gives elevations, you can calculate percent slope and distances, etc, all which can be helpful for remote scouting.

I have been spending a lot of time going over the Colorado Hunting Atlas and it does have some very impressive features. Regarding public vs. private land, my question isn't so much about boundaries (I'll have a GPS "chip" and hard-copy map) as it is about how much of the CDOW's published "harvest" statistics are hunters on private land vs. hunters on public land. If a unit overall has 40% success on 4th season cow hunts, but only 20% of the unit is public....no way to figure this out really, I guess.

I was gonna recommend what AM 983 said....the overlays are very useful and are 90% very very accurate. I spend a good deal of time up that way and I think to say the timing the past 5 years, 4th season rifle really isn't a " migration hunt". I go with the general rule of thumb that the snow needs to touch their bellys and or they cant scratch/dig for feed before large numbers start bunching and moving to the true winter ranges/areas. 4th season rifle success pretty much all over Colorado is gonna be determined by glassing them up over the break between seasons and figuring the valley/spot they got bumped into due to hunter pressure. My honey hole for 4th season cow is 2 miles off the beaten path, above non accessible ground, south facing and usually has about 12" or less of snow with bare paths and good forage. Hope that helps.

When you're talking about the "overlays" being very accurate, are you talking about the summer concentration areas, migration routes and stuff like that? Good info. on the migration. Let me ask you something else: During the 4th season, are the cow groups and bull groups likely to be intermingled somewhat (or at least in the same area), or not so much? I see these pictures of late season groups of elk, and it seems like groups of bulls, or groups of cows, but not a whole lot of mingling that time of year. Also, when the migration is "on", is it like the caribou migration in Canada where one day there might be no sign of elk and then the next, in the same spot, you might see a few hundred? I guess ideally it would be good to find a spot that's kind of an "in-between" location, where some elk spend time almost year-round, but the area also happens to be in a migration route, a spot with some overlap? It sounds like the spot you hunt is kind of like that? I'm surprised that they're still hanging around no problem with a foot of snow. Good info. to know.

 

[ashridge]

Hunting 4th season in the Flat Tops is pretty much out of the question due to snow. I have hunted the Meeker area and Unit 12/23/24 for 30 years so I have some experiance in the area. Oak Ridge SWA outside of Meeker can be good for late season as can Jensen SWA. Another place would be in Unit 211 around the Wilson Oil fields. Lots of public acess and the weather should still be decent. Another spot can be just NE of Meeker off of Yellow Jacket Pass road. This is higher elevation so depending on the weather this area can be good or impassable. Hope this helps and does not add to your headache. Send me a PM if you have questions.

Thanks for the info., I'll pm you.

 

[Slugz]

Hunting 4th season in the Flat Tops is pretty much out of the question due to snow. I have hunted the Meeker area and Unit 12/23/24 for 30 years so I have some experiance in the area. Oak Ridge SWA outside of Meeker can be good for late season as can Jensen SWA. Another place would be in Unit 211 around the Wilson Oil fields. Lots of public acess and the weather should still be decent. Another spot can be just NE of Meeker off of Yellow Jacket Pass road. This is higher elevation so depending on the weather this area can be good or impassable. Hope this helps and does not add to your headache. Send me a PM if you have questions.

SGM is spot on .....I should have put a little more detail like......I'm 4th season hunting in 12/23/24 below roughly 8600 most years.

 

[Slugz]

When you're talking about the "overlays" being very accurate, are you talking about the summer concentration areas, migration routes and stuff like that? Good info. on the migration. Let me ask you something else: During the 4th season, are the cow groups and bull groups likely to be intermingled somewhat (or at least in the same area), or not so much? I see these pictures of late season groups of elk, and it seems like groups of bulls, or groups of cows, but not a whole lot of mingling that time of year. Also, when the migration is "on", is it like the caribou migration in Canada where one day there might be no sign of elk and then the next, in the same spot, you might see a few hundred? I guess ideally it would be good to find a spot that's kind of an "in-between" location, where some elk spend time almost year-round, but the area also happens to be in a migration route, a spot with some overlap? It sounds like the spot you hunt is kind of like that? I'm surprised that they're still hanging around no problem with a foot of snow. Good info. to know.[/QUOTE]

Yes on the overlays.....I'm seeing1-3 bulls in each cow herd made up of 10-20 animals. So IMO they are definitely starting to group up or come together post last cows in heat and them putting the feed bag on in bachelor groups. I don't think we cow hunt late enough in the season to see the big numbers that match the pictures you see on " winter range"

I went back and forth on the whole snow thing before an old timer convinced me of the belly comment based upon 5 straight years of hunting the same GMU 4th or late season (DEC). That same guy hunts at roughly 8700 feet with a solid amount of snow every 4th season and 1 out of roughly every 3 years gets a bull and a cow every year. I think you are spot on with the in between or middle ground comment. Every cow hunt we go on has scrub oak valleys in the back ground of the pics so you can kinda tell the altitude/terrain as those scrub oaks provide the late summer shade to let the forage around them grow a little longer an not get burned out. IMO.

I feel pretty confident going into a GMU after studying the overlays and land layout......marking my gazetteer with winter range, winter concentration areas, resident herds and migration general routes/flow. Glassing 2-3 days covering a lot of ground and finding them.

My honey hole is where they got bumped after 3rd season.....lot of places are only accessible (where they are hiding) by either horse or foot ( snow shoes) last year though I never pulled the shoes out in between storms.

22 is another good kid hunt also IMO up in the Picceance ( sp?)basin.....Lastly the bulk of our hunting ( kid hunting ) is always on the edge of BLM/NF with the bulk of it being on BLM most times so a good GPS/chip cellphone combo is what I'm mainly.

 

[Elktaco]

My advice would be to get a leftover bull tag for the 1st season. There have been alot of leftovers for the units in the nw corner. (11,12,23,24,33) . I think the 1st rifle in these units offers a decent chance at a bull, a better chance than a 4th rifle hunt in the same units. Look into Unit 12, there are alot of hunters in this area but also alot of elk. Look at the summer concentration areas on the cdow website and there should be elk in those areas 1st season. Just my 2 cents good luck on your decision and hunt!

 

[ashridge]

Yes on the overlays.....I'm seeing1-3 bulls in each cow herd made up of 10-20 animals. So IMO they are definitely starting to group up or come together post last cows in heat and them putting the feed bag on in bachelor groups. I don't think we cow hunt late enough in the season to see the big numbers that match the pictures you see on " winter range"

I went back and forth on the whole snow thing before an old timer convinced me of the belly comment based upon 5 straight years of hunting the same GMU 4th or late season (DEC). That same guy hunts at roughly 8700 feet with a solid amount of snow every 4th season and 1 out of roughly every 3 years gets a bull and a cow every year. I think you are spot on with the in between or middle ground comment. Every cow hunt we go on has scrub oak valleys in the back ground of the pics so you can kinda tell the altitude/terrain as those scrub oaks provide the late summer shade to let the forage around them grow a little longer an not get burned out. IMO.

I feel pretty confident going into a GMU after studying the overlays and land layout......marking my gazetteer with winter range, winter concentration areas, resident herds and migration general routes/flow. Glassing 2-3 days covering a lot of ground and finding them.

My honey hole is where they got bumped after 3rd season.....lot of places are only accessible (where they are hiding) by either horse or foot ( snow shoes) last year though I never pulled the shoes out in between storms.

22 is another good kid hunt also IMO up in the Picceance ( sp?)basin.....Lastly the bulk of our hunting ( kid hunting ) is always on the edge of BLM/NF with the bulk of it being on BLM most times so a good GPS/chip cellphone combo is what I'm mainly.

Great info., thanks, and we will definitely have a Colorado GPS chip showing landownership.

 

[ashridge]

My advice would be to get a leftover bull tag for the 1st season. There have been alot of leftovers for the units in the nw corner. (11,12,23,24,33) . I think the 1st rifle in these units offers a decent chance at a bull, a better chance than a 4th rifle hunt in the same units. Look into Unit 12, there are alot of hunters in this area but also alot of elk. Look at the summer concentration areas on the cdow website and there should be elk in those areas 1st season. Just my 2 cents good luck on your decision and hunt!

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the 1st season dates don't work with our schedule this year, but I will keep it in mind for future.