1st Mule Deer

N

Nebraska Outlander

Active Member
Sep 6, 2011
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Cobbhunts said:
Have you shot any Barnes ML bullets out of that set up? I'll be honest and say that I don't care much for the SST ML bullets. I'll have to look into the Parkers. Thanks for sharing.

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I haven't shot any in my smokeless muzzleloader because I have had very good luck with the SST. Before I shot smokeless I shot the Barnes in a CVA optima pro because it was the only thing I could get to shoot accurately out of that rifle. I shot a doe with one and didn't like the expansion of the Barnes. It didn't expand for me and I didn't find the deer until a week later. From what I could tell it punched a small hole in and never expanded. I couldn't find any blood to follow and she ran over 150 yards in an oak timber. With no blood and her running past my father we couldn't tell she was hit. Looked for an hour and after talking to my dad we felt I missed. After that experience I didn't like them that much.

I realize allot of people don't like the SST because they can frag but I like that they transfer all their energy into the deer and if they only put one hole I've always had a blood trail even though I've never needed one with the sst they almost always drop on their tracks. I just stay away from bones.

I don't knock the Barnes because I know they work for other people just not for me. The parkers match hunters are very devastating however the BC on those bullets is around .400 verses the Barnes and SST which are .200.

Thanks for the question.
 
Colorado Cowboy

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
I'll be honest and don't take this personal....but I really don't think smokeless powder in a muzzleloader that shoots 400 yards should be considered a M/L and be allowed in M/L season. I know every state has the right to set their own regs and you are doing what is allowed, but for me it is just not M/L hunting. I'll probably stir up a hornets nest, but it just doesn't fit my definition of M/L' ers. There are lots of M/L hunters out there that don't like inlines because they are not "primitive" enough, but at least they still use BP or a legal substitute for BP.
 
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Cobbhunts

Cobbhunts

Veteran member
Jan 22, 2014
1,060
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Kentucky
Great response. I had the "punch" through with an SST once. That was what turned me off from them. But that was only one example. I've shot 7 with the Barnes now and haven't had a deer even take a step, all high shoulder shots....no bullet recovery, but excellent exit wounds. Using Barnes Expander ML specifically. They are less accurate than the SST was for me though. The SST was lights out with 110 gr of black horn 209, Rio primers and harvester sabots.

You've peaked my interest in the Parker's. I believe I'll order some and do some testing this summer. Thanks again!!

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Musket Man

Musket Man

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Jul 20, 2011
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colfax, wa
Im surprised you had bad luck with the barnes. I shoot Knight Redhots which I believe are the same bullet and I have had great results with them. I have only ever recovered 1 and it was just under the hide in the other side and was the most perfectly expanded bullet i have ever seen. The deer I killed this year I hit just a bit high and took out both lungs and broke its spine, deer never even kicked!
 
T

Topgun 30-06

Banned
Jun 12, 2013
1,353
1
Allegan, MI
Colorado Cowboy said:
I'll be honest and don't take this personal....but I really don't think smokeless powder in a muzzleloader that shoots 400 yards should be considered a M/L and be allowed in M/L season. I know every state has the right to set their own regs and you are doing what is allowed, but for me it is just not M/L hunting. I'll probably stir up a hornets nest, but it just fit my definition of M/L' ers. There are lots of M/L hunters out there that don't like inlines because they are not "primitive" enough, but at least they still use BP or a legal substitute for BP.
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Don't think that you're by yourself in that analysis CC! I'll even extend it a little further with the distances that the inlines shoot with the substitutes too. IMHO MLs don't need a separate season unless they are of the primitive variety because the modern ones can take so much more game at long distances. That, in turn, can really cut down on season dates and tag numbers in other seasons to compensate for them. I think as they get more popular you're going to see those kinds of ramifications get worse until people start getting into fights over them similar to ones who already think that archers get too many breaks with long seasons, rut hunts, etc. Up here in MI, especially in the lower third where centerfire rifles aren't allowed for deer hunting, there is an extra season for them for two weeks that's as long as the two week regular frirarm season. A guy that really likes to hunt is crazy if he doesn't have one in order to double his time in the field. Just MHO though!
 
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N

Nebraska Outlander

Active Member
Sep 6, 2011
160
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Colorado Cowboy said:
I'll be honest and don't take this personal....but I really don't think smokeless powder in a muzzleloader that shoots 400 yards should be considered a M/L and be allowed in M/L season. I know every state has the right to set their own regs and you are doing what is allowed, but for me it is just not M/L hunting. I'll probably stir up a hornets nest, but it just doesn't fit my definition of M/L' ers. There are lots of M/L hunters out there that don't like inlines because they are not "primitive" enough, but at least they still use BP or a legal substitute for BP.
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I respect your comment and appreciate what you said. I was turkey hunting a farm that I had permission to be on and set up on top of a field where I had watched a group of birds strut every morning. This spot happened to be in front of this guys house now the spot was over 1000 yards across the road and up the hill but he could see that I had set up my double bull blind right next to his natural ground blind that I had no idea it was there since I set up in the dark and didn't know it was there. After my hunt I headed back to my vehicle and while I was walking threw the field I could see him literally running towards me. Well I some what knew the guy and knew he was going to try to run me off and tell me that I had no business being there. What I didn't know was he was going to tell me that my compound bow and double bull blind was unethical and wouldn't work. Told me that using a compound bow was like hunting with a rifle and the birds would never come in to a big blind of in the open. Well after an hour of arguing with him about the whole hunt I was pretty upset he ruined my experience that morning. I talked to the farmer who gave me permission who in turn talked to the guy and told him he no longer has permission to hunt his property.

Getting back to the compound bow or let's just say for the smokeless muzzleloader. The way I look at it is this, until I feel like I've perfected my skills at taking trophy game with the more modern equipment I won't switch to the older style of hunting equipment. I don't want to take anything from people who do but I have a process of how I hunt one is hunting by the rules in which the state allows two I work my way up. Meaning this year I won't shoot anything smaller than what I shoot last year. If I can't then I'll just shoot a doe to fill the freezer because my family and I love to eat deer.

In some states mine being one of them smokeless powder is consider legal no illegal so this is what I use. I only get one shot just like other muzzleloader, I still have to change of the primer just like other muzzleloaders and I still have to pour powder down the barrel. The one thing I have is distance and from what ever heard there are muzzleloaders that back in the day could shoot farther than what I can so I don't feel I'm doing anything different.

I'm not upset by any means everyone had their own view on now to hunt which I respect. Enjoy what you do have fun and pass on the experience because you never know when NoBama will take it away.

Thanks for all the comments guys happy hunting
 
N

Nebraska Outlander

Active Member
Sep 6, 2011
160
0
Cobbhunts said:
Great response. I had the "punch" through with an SST once. That was what turned me off from them. But that was only one example. I've shot 7 with the Barnes now and haven't had a deer even take a step, all high shoulder shots....no bullet recovery, but excellent exit wounds. Using Barnes Expander ML specifically. They are less accurate than the SST was for me though. The SST was lights out with 110 gr of black horn 209, Rio primers and harvester sabots.

You've peaked my interest in the Parker's. I believe I'll order some and do some testing this summer. Thanks again!!

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Click to expand...

Here r the groups I'm getting at 300 yards with the SST. Just at 2"

 
Cobbhunts

Cobbhunts

Veteran member
Jan 22, 2014
1,060
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Kentucky
That's as fine a group as you can expect from a ML. Good shooting. Thanks for sharing your set up and the link! I'll for sure order me some of those bullets to try.

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Colorado Cowboy

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
Like I said...nothing personal. You are abiding by your states rules. Lots of states have different regs concerning M/L hunting. I happen to shoot an inline and use 209 primers, which would not be allowed in many states.
 
N

Nebraska Outlander

Active Member
Sep 6, 2011
160
0
I've been thinking about my set up and realize for some of the older hunters on here my rifle could offend some. This wasn't my intent and I'm sorry if I've stepped on some toes.

Thanks for all the compliments guys. I even appreciate the questions about my rig even though you don't agree with it. For me it's about being a respected sportsman, an ethical hunter and respecting the game we pursue. I've always loved the outdoors and as long as I can enjoy it with my family and friends that is what is all about.
 
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