Wildlife task force, 90-10, etc.

Maxhunter

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Apr 10, 2011
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Wyoming
I'm a resident and used a guide on two occasions. One was for mountain lion and the other sheep. When I hunted with Josh Martoglio he stated about 80% of his guided sheep hunters were residents. Most of them know this is most likely once in a lifetime hunt since it takes them many years to draw a tag. Also is takes horses and mules to get you in some of the remote areas for sheep. There are some units that can be hunted without stock.

The other animals that can be hunted by residents like antelope, deer, elk etc don't need the services of an outfitter. I know a lot of nonresidents who don't hire outfitters except if they have to go into wilderness areas. Some have family or friends who act as a guide.

The bottom line is the demand is very high for western species in every state for nonresidents and residents. I've seen the draw odds getting worst every year. IMO the Internet and magazines have provided a lot of information to hunters that wasn't available years ago. Also a lot of hunters are making a good income that affords them to do out of state hunts. I do agreed that nonresidents support the western states with tag fees especially in WY. If you want to hunt western states move to the state or keep applying.
 
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shootbrownelk

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Apr 11, 2011
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Wyoming
Bottom line is Wyoming Residents have the right to manage our wildlife as we see fit.

ID, MT, NM, AZ, OR, etc. all run successful wildlife programs with 90-10 (or less).

The GF budget is not only fine, but has nearly a years worth of operating expenses in reserve. PR/DJ funding is probably as high as its ever been. Money from the Governors/Commission tags get funneled back to the GF as well.

The case to be made in regard to loss in revenue isn't going anywhere. Hotels, Restaurants, and other businesses don't care whether its a NR or R that's eating their food, staying at their hotel, or buying fuel at their gas stations...all pays the same.

What Residents in Wyoming are asking for is not one bit different than Residents in others States enjoy. Even the outfitters on the task force realize the chances for their kids, grandkids, etc. to be able to hunt quality tags is only going to happen with more tags available to them. And, they're right about that.

I'm also tired of NR's telling Residents we have enough opportunity...most feel we don't. Just because we can draw a second choice pronghorn tag, and hunt general elk and deer, doesn't mean we want to hunt more often in LQ areas.

IMO/E, what the problem is the entitlement attitude the NR hunters have acquired through the years because of our generosity and graciousness. Nothing lasts forever, and the attitude expressed by the likes of jims, mallardsx2 and others only makes Residents want to fight even harder for more opportunity.

Combine that with declining herds, more Residents taking up the sport, more residents applying for tags, and fewer tags being issued...perfect storm for 90-10.

Like I said, the pulse of the room was easy to see...and the side conversations that were happening showed strong support for 90-10 for the big 5. They are using that issue, because is has such broad support, as a way to get something accomplished fast and in front of the Legislature for 2022. If the recommendation passes the Legislature, the law would be put into effect in 2023. It was a bit surprising to see WYOGA support 90-10 so quickly, but they did.

I don't plan to miss a single task force meeting...the opportunity exists to clean up a few big issues and 90-10 is a top priority for the task force.
If Sy of S-n-S outfitters is for the 90/10 split, then he's wanting something else....like outfitter/landowner set asides or something else. I know the guy, he's looking out for Sy & his outfitting business. He bears watching.
 

shootbrownelk

Veteran member
Apr 11, 2011
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Wyoming
if the rules are changed,,why wouldnt a refund be fair? thats alot of money that has been spent building points for a chance at a tag.
Do states give you back the money you spend on lottery tickets when you don't win? Times change and the G&f & Wyoming legislature need to change with them. Need some cheese with that whine?
 

JM77

Member
Apr 25, 2016
99
25
Casper, Wyoming
I think we should all move to Wyoming & get the benefits of the 90-10. Plan on moving there next year.
That’s my plan too as soon as the wife gets on board
I am going to testify at the next Task Force meeting that if Wyoming implements 90/10, there will be thousands of NR hunters moving here. Think of the economic boost to Wyoming!
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
219
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Obviously a lot of Wyoming residents are complaining about not drawing high demand limited tags for years; however most take advantage and hunt general deer and elk units every year. I thought it would be interesting to compile a spread sheet of popular elk units with 2021 resident draw odds. I think a lot of Wyo res have the misconception that they will suddenly have a lot better draw odds with 90/10 with 1/2 of limited tags would be taken from nonres and issued to Wyo res. The 2 columns on the right show 2021 raw odds % and draw odd % with 90/10 nonres tags added.

What is revealing to me is that 2 of the unit's draw odds remained exactly the same. The remaining units only increased 1 to 3%. I picked scattered elk units across Wyoming that are fairly popular. I'm sure the trend continues with other units across Wyoming.

The reality of it is that 90/10 would not significantly improve Wyo resident elk draw odds; however, it will cut nonresident tags in 1/2 and take twice as long for ALL nonres to draw limited tags. There are literally thousands of nonres hunters that have invested years of applying and have lots of $ invested into the pref point system. This could suddenly change dramatically for the worse with 90/10!IMG_4375.jpg
 

ScottR

Eastmans' Staff / Moderator
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Feb 3, 2014
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The only thing that would adjust odds up for a few years until a plateau is a waiting period to apply for trophy quality. The longer the wait the better the odds for everyone else.

Personally I would wait three years as long as the general units are managed properly.
 
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Colorado Cowboy

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A few years back after my last Elk draw, I realized that I probably would never draw any of the units I wanted to hunt again. At my age I don't have all that many years left to hunt. I will continue to buy points and apply for antelope and deer, but none of the rest of the big game tags or points. I waited 15 years for a NR buck deer tag and can't wait that long again for any tag...... anywhere.
 
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BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
696
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Obviously a lot of Wyoming residents are complaining about not drawing high demand limited tags for years; however most take advantage and hunt general deer and elk units every year. I thought it would be interesting to compile a spread sheet of popular elk units with 2021 resident draw odds. I think a lot of Wyo res have the misconception that they will suddenly have a lot better draw odds with 90/10 with 1/2 of limited tags would be taken from nonres and issued to Wyo res. The 2 columns on the right show 2021 raw odds % and draw odd % with 90/10 nonres tags added.

What is revealing to me is that 2 of the unit's draw odds remained exactly the same. The remaining units only increased 1 to 3%. I picked scattered elk units across Wyoming that are fairly popular. I'm sure the trend continues with other units across Wyoming.

The reality of it is that 90/10 would not significantly improve Wyo resident elk draw odds; however, it will cut nonresident tags in 1/2 and take twice as long for ALL nonres to draw limited tags. There are literally thousands of nonres hunters that have invested years of applying and have lots of $ invested into the pref point system. This could suddenly change dramatically for the worse with 90/10!View attachment 34900
That right there is proof positive of the needed change to 90-10...

Over the course of 10 years, 1,400 more Residents with smiling faces from only 7 LQ elk units, and that's what its all about, right Sebastian?

That's a pile of happy Residents.

Oh, and for the record...that also means 1,400 very happy Non-Resident hunters who will get general tags that would not have under current tag splits.

As Scott pointed out, the current general area management is very good...will be lots of smiling faces on NR's who get to hunt our general units more often.

No loss in full priced elk tags to NR's, GF loses no funding, and Residents get to hunt LQ area's more often...that's a WIN-WIN-WIN.

That is going to be presented to the task force...
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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The only thing that would adjust odds up for a few years until a plateau is a waiting period to apply for trophy quality. The longer the wait the better the odds for everyone else.

Personally I would wait three years as long as the general units are managed properly.
Waiting periods are on the list.
 
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jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
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What do you think Buzz? There certainly seems to be a lot of craziness going on behind closed doors with task force members. In particular, in regard to the outfitters, landowner tags, outfitter tags?

Here's a quick summary of some of the truths coming out about several of the Task Force members from the link above:

Turns out more members of the Taskforce are in position to benefit financially from Wyoming's Wildlife than we originally thought. G&F Commissioner Brian Nesvik, for example, said his land qualified for landowner tags - though he's never applied for them. Pete Dube, current G&F Commission Chairman, appointed himself to the Taskforce and admitted he was a former outfitter.

As expected, the "Sportsmen" representatives on the Taskforce - Adam Teten, Josh Coursey, and Joe Schaffer, aren't strong and got steamrolled. On Wednesday, Day 1, they incredibly went along with the rest of the group to decide that any issue which receives the minimum 51% of the groups' approval would be forwarded to the Legislature as an "official" Taskforce recommendation. Given that at least 9 of the current 18-member Taskforce are either outfitters, landowners or both, why Teten, Coursey and Schaffer agreed to this is beyond me.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
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There's a lot of things being said...and JM77 and I, as well as others are in on a lot of the side conversations going on.

But, like I've told you a few times now, 90-10 for the big 5 is the low hanging fruit that is getting the task force moving forward. Everyone at this point seems fine with it, including the outfitters. Nobody is giving up anything from a strategic standpoint on that, the taskforce wants to have something to the TRW committee by this coming session on it. Outfitters and others in the room made it clear, they're resident hunters first, have families that hunt, and "wear a lot of different hats".

You should attend the meetings and find out...like JM77 and I do.
 

Granby guy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2012
315
171
Grand Lake, Colorado
Sounds like Colorado is the place to be...don't care what Colorado Residents want to do with their wildlife.

This is about Wyoming...
Many Colorado residents are tired of the unlimited NR OTC licenses. They have went to a limited draw in many areas that were previously OTC and I would hope that we expand that. Right now the majority of the 35% NR split areas are not managed for trophy potential rather crowd control. Units that take 10pp or more have a 90/10 split.
 

mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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In GA Residents and Non Residents are given 10 Antlerless tags and 2 buck tags and 2 bear tags and now (starting in 2021) 2 turkey tags with every license purchased. Also as many hogs and small game as you want to shoot and as many fish as you want to catch if you get the sportsman's license. Plus you can partake in Quota hunts and shoot additional bucks and does that dont count against your buck tags.

They do charge more for a non-resident license (about half the cost of an OTC Colorado elk license) but thats a lot of game to hunt for the price of admission.

Pretty good deal for both residents and non-residents if you ask me.

Oh, and preference points are free to apply for.
 
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JimP

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In GA Residents and Non Residents are given 10 Antlerless tags and 2 buck tags and 2 bear tags and now (starting in 2021) 2 turkey tags with every license purchased. Also as many hogs and small game as you want to shoot and as many fish as you want to catch if you get the sportsman's license. Plus you can partake in Quota hunts and shoot additional bucks and does that dont count against your buck tags.

They do charge more for a non-resident license (about half the cost of an OTC Colorado elk license) but thats a lot of game to hunt for the price of admission.

Pretty good deal for both residents and non-residents if you ask me.

Oh, and preference points are free to apply for.
While you have a lot of opportunity you will have a hard time shooting a mule deer, elk, pronghorn, and a number of other animals in your state.

I have the same discussion over on a African hunting forum. While they have fantastic opportunities to shoot quite a few different types of animals they don't have the other animals that people hunt in North America and other countries.
 

mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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I was just answering the mans question. Showing a bang for your buck (pun intended) comparison. Is what it is.

And I think goes without saying that we dont have any "Western Exotics" that are IMHO over-valued at a borderline kings ransom. There is a decent herd of elk up in Cherokee NC about 2 hours away though! I dont think they would like me letting the air out of one of those...lol

The thing I was pointing out is that (other than the cost) GA doesn't discriminate between residents and non-residents. Everyone gets a fair shake at the animals. But nobody from Wyoming wants to come to GA to shoot little whitetails and pigs but everyone from GA wants to go to WY and shoot elk and mule deer. Just the nature of desire I suppose.
 
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