Wildlife task force, 90-10, etc.

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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The initial 2 day meeting of the 18 member task force is in the books. Ground rules were set, introductions were made, and a list of items to address was presented. Within that list, there was a ranking of priority that I didn't get a photo of, but should be available on the website soon.

The list, written notes are mine, I think I captured MOST of the changes:





So, the Chairman was voted on and that position went to Rusty Bell, Co-Chairman position went to Josh Coursey.

Right out of the gate today, the top issues were voted on and 90-10 for the "big 5" (moose, sheep, goat, bison, and grizzly) was the top priority. A motion was made to have a recommendation move on 90-10 prior to the upcoming legislative session. That passed with unanimous consent with details to be worked out between now and July.

Testimony was given by several folks, and Sy Gilliland with WOGA went on record in full support of 90-10 in some form for those species. Still debate on making those species once in a life-time in addition to 90-10 and if changes to preference points for those need a change as well.

The task force seems intent on getting a 90-10 bill in front of the legislature for the 2022 session. IMO, I think the recommendation of the task force is going to hold a huge amount of sway with the legislature. The legislature also is really anxious to get this issue behind them. In the meantime, there will be opportunity for the public to comment. I can sense a strong tail-wind picking up momentum to get 90-10 for the big 5 to the legislature...the remaining issues, including 90-10 for deer, elk, pronghorn and some others, will be much more contentious I think and much harder to come to a recommendation.

What was the most disappointing was the poor showing by Resident Sportsmen at the in person meeting. I don't know how many weighed in via zoom. I tried to keep a few people up to date on what was happening yesterday and today.

In the meantime, the task force members are encouraging public comment on all of these issues...and per always, those that show up, get heard. Those that don't...they eat dust.
 
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ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
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there is alot of non res moneys the state will loose if this 90-10 thing goes thru,,even if only for the big 5,i dont see how the wyom guide and outfitter assoc will like loosing all that money they will loose a good portion of there out of state clients,as well as ,wyoming game and fish,,,just saying as a non resident,a ton of people could bail and not even buy points,,,and that is a big money maker in itself.i m o i think wyoming really needs a good portion of the out of state non res moneys coming in from the apps,,remember there are more antelope than people in wyoming,,i dont think wyoming residents will come close to picking up the tab on that amount of money.i may make residents upset,but i think its the truth,,,its all about the money.
 
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Rich M

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Oct 16, 2012
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Buzz - I do hunter stuff down here and we get very low turnout from the hunters. Can't even get em to fill out a questionnaire but they sure whine if you make a change that had a public comment period.

You-all should push for the 90/10 thing. Make the big 5 once-lifetime. Tear off the bandaid so you aren't stuck with a series of changes.

I don't think the NR money is a big deal. They can double the NR fees so there ya go.
 
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jimss

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Jun 10, 2012
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Calling all Wyo nonres!

Are you aware that with 90/10 that 1/2 of the current high demand nonres tags would be stripped from nonres? Cutting nonres limited tags in 1/2 carries a major impact to nonres while it only provides a handful more tags/unit to Wyoming residents. If you think point creep is bad now wait until it takes twice as long to draw high demand tags! The economic impacts to Wyo small town communities and the WG&F are also a reality!

If you are a DIY hunter that enjoys hunting without hiring an outfitter/guide I would also suggest providing comments to the task force. High demand tags could be taken directly away from the nonres hunter pool similar to what was done in New Mexico.

Now's your chance to speak up and voice your opinion! If you are a concerned nonres please send your comments to the task force. The more nonres that flood the task force with comments the more attention we can make! There is no one on the task force other than outfitters that are voicing DIY nonres hunters recommendations so make your voice made! Ore Hunter makes some great comments in regard to 90/10. Make sure to provide constructive comments at the following website.

Here's a link to the task forces website: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input
 
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Rich M

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Oct 16, 2012
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@jimss, the fire alarm should have already happened. This is the continuation of something that started years ago. If you think you can talk Buzz into leaving the allotment alone, then you might have a chance with the committee.

I do this stuff down here. They talk about it a bit, get folks informed and after a year or tow of talking, then they implement it. We're getting close. the public comment period is when you present your arguments. Few folks ever do.

The question is if it will take place next year 2022 or if it will happen in 2023.
 
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mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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The funniest part about the 90/10 split for the "big 5" is that the odds in drawing those tags even if they do away with ALL of the NR allotment for the "big 5" is still a long shot.

Once they get the NR's of the way resident guys like Buzz will still bitch and piss and moan that their odds still suck and then they will turn on each other and fight amongst themselves for the tags. lol

Bottom line is that some residents have a lot of penned up hatred towards NR hunters hunting their state. Always have, always will. Nothing we say or do will change that. Those that have that attitude can grow old and die angry for all I care.
 

cking13

Active Member
May 20, 2017
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The funniest part about the 90/10 split for the "big 5" is that the odds in drawing those tags even if they do away with ALL of the NR allotment for the "big 5" is still a long shot.

Once they get the NR's of the way resident guys like Buzz will still bitch and piss and moan that their odds still suck and then they will turn on each other and fight amongst themselves for the tags. lol

Bottom line is that some residents have a lot of penned up hatred towards NR hunters hunting their state. Always have, always will. Nothing we say or do will change that. Those that have that attitude can grow old and die angry for all I care.
That about sums it up. I don’t see the odds getting that much greater for residents when they get that extra 1-7%, especially with the way people are flocking to the state. I’m not a resident so my input really doesn’t matter to them, but I think they’re still going to have the same shitty draw odds even after 90/10.
 
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jimss

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Jun 10, 2012
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Ask Wyo legislators how many negative comments they received the last few years from angry nonres hunters! The more nonres that are willing to comment the better chance we'll be able to save the few tags that are alloted! The more nonres that are willing to voice their opinion the better chance 90/10 will be dropped for good!

The Task Force is guessing that the financial loss from converting high dollar nonres tags to low dollar res tags will be picked up by Wyo nonres paying high fees for doe, 2nd choice, and left over tags. What happens in lean years after severe winters or drought when these tags are lower or eliminated? Wyo antelope tags have been cut across most of Wyo and some units don't even offer doe tags. Where will the $ come from with the loss in this revenue?

How many nonres will get fed up paying high pref pt fees each year when they find out it will take 2x as long to draw tags? Nonres currently pay $31 to $150/species/year for pref pts. My guess is that most nonres pay these fees for at least 3 to 5 of these species/year. That's a chunk of change for each hunter. How many nonres will drop out once they find out it will take twice as many years to draw high demand tags? The Task Force could also care less that Wyo nonres have been paying pref pt fees for years and years! It's almost like they are raising their middle finger to the nonres and could care less?

Ask Buzz how many tags he had in his pocket as a Wyo res last year! Wyo res have plenty of opportunity! How many Wyoming residents hunt general OTC deer and elk units every year. I definitely think that is a perk for Wyo res! Every Wyo resident can currently hunt buck and bulls every year while nonres must draw these same general tags!

The truth is that 90/10 will strip 1/2 of the high demand limited nonres tags that will require twice as long for nonres to draw tags. Draw odds for Wyo res will only slightly rise because there are only 1 to a handful of tags that would be switched over to Wyo residents.
 
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ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
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my concern is for the non res that has paid good money to build up points in the "big 5" game for the last several years and now gets the rug pulled out from under him,,,there are alot of non res that already have a big investment into the tag point game in wyoming..though i dont do the "big 5 " myself,,{only deer,elk and antelope} I see this 90-10 thing as bad for non res,,bad for wyoming game and fishes budget,,loss moneys for the guides and outfitters,,as well as the tourism aspect that a non res $$$ brings to wyoming..nothing against the residents,,its just a BIG MONEY thing,,and alot of it $$$$$$
 

Hilltop

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Feb 25, 2014
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I'm a guy holding quite a few moose points. It stinks to think they may become worthless soon. That said, I am encouraged that the big push is only on the big 5 right now. I also love to hunt elk, deer and antelope so I guess I would take that trade off and lose my points if we could keep current percentages of the other big game.

One thing that stuck out to me - transferrable landowner tags is being discussed again. I'm not a fan of that at all.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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Bottom line is Wyoming Residents have the right to manage our wildlife as we see fit.

ID, MT, NM, AZ, OR, etc. all run successful wildlife programs with 90-10 (or less).

The GF budget is not only fine, but has nearly a years worth of operating expenses in reserve. PR/DJ funding is probably as high as its ever been. Money from the Governors/Commission tags get funneled back to the GF as well.

The case to be made in regard to loss in revenue isn't going anywhere. Hotels, Restaurants, and other businesses don't care whether its a NR or R that's eating their food, staying at their hotel, or buying fuel at their gas stations...all pays the same.

What Residents in Wyoming are asking for is not one bit different than Residents in others States enjoy. Even the outfitters on the task force realize the chances for their kids, grandkids, etc. to be able to hunt quality tags is only going to happen with more tags available to them. And, they're right about that.

I'm also tired of NR's telling Residents we have enough opportunity...most feel we don't. Just because we can draw a second choice pronghorn tag, and hunt general elk and deer, doesn't mean we want to hunt more often in LQ areas.

IMO/E, what the problem is the entitlement attitude the NR hunters have acquired through the years because of our generosity and graciousness. Nothing lasts forever, and the attitude expressed by the likes of jims, mallardsx2 and others only makes Residents want to fight even harder for more opportunity.

Combine that with declining herds, more Residents taking up the sport, more residents applying for tags, and fewer tags being issued...perfect storm for 90-10.

Like I said, the pulse of the room was easy to see...and the side conversations that were happening showed strong support for 90-10 for the big 5. They are using that issue, because is has such broad support, as a way to get something accomplished fast and in front of the Legislature for 2022. If the recommendation passes the Legislature, the law would be put into effect in 2023. It was a bit surprising to see WYOGA support 90-10 so quickly, but they did.

I don't plan to miss a single task force meeting...the opportunity exists to clean up a few big issues and 90-10 is a top priority for the task force.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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I'm a guy holding quite a few moose points. It stinks to think they may become worthless soon. That said, I am encouraged that the big push is only on the big 5 right now. I also love to hunt elk, deer and antelope so I guess I would take that trade off and lose my points if we could keep current percentages of the other big game.

One thing that stuck out to me - transferrable landowner tags is being discussed again. I'm not a fan of that at all.
90-10 for the rest is priority #2 on the taskforce list and will be more contentious but I expect a change to be recommended there too.
 
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jimss

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Jun 10, 2012
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Colorado to the south of Wyo offers nonres OTC elk every year they desire and 35% of limited tags for deer, antelope, and elk. That's way better than Wyo currently treats nonres! Colo's small town communities welcome the revenue nonres provide!

Hopefully nonres that have invested up to 25 years into the sheep and moose draw and have been paying the WG&F steep pref pt fees all those years will contact the task force and continue to put pressure on them and legislators in regard to 90/10! If you ask me nonres have a lot invested into the system!

Wyo res have plenty of perks (general elk and deer tags, etc they can hunt every year)....why rape nonres of the few tags they are issued? Buzz, how many big game tags did you say you had last year as a Wyo res?

Almost forgot....please send in your comments Wyo nonres!!!!
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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That about sums it up. I don’t see the odds getting that much greater for residents when they get that extra 1-7%, especially with the way people are flocking to the state. I’m not a resident so my input really doesn’t matter to them, but I think they’re still going to have the same shitty draw odds even after 90/10.
Under current quotas for sheep, moose, goat, and bison it will be a big deal to another 116 Resident hunters...as well as moving applicants through the sheep and moose point pools much faster.
 
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BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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Colorado to the south of Wyo offers nonres OTC elk every year they desire and 35% of limited tags for deer, antelope, and elk. That's way better than Wyo currently treats nonres! Colo's small town communities welcome the revenue nonres provide!

Hopefully nonres that have invested up to 25 years into the sheep and moose draw and have been paying the WG&F steep pref pt fees all those years will contact the task force and continue to put pressure on them and legislators in regard to 90/10! If you ask me nonres have a lot invested into the system!

Wyo res have plenty of perks (general elk and deer tags, etc they can hunt every year)....why rape nonres of the few tags they are issued? Buzz, how many big game tags did you say you had last year as a Wyo res?

Almost forgot....please send in your comments Wyo nonres!!!!
Sounds like Colorado is the place to be...don't care what Colorado Residents want to do with their wildlife.

This is about Wyoming...
 
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cking13

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May 20, 2017
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VA
Under current quotas for sheep, moose, goat, and bison it will be a big deal to another 116 Resident hunters...as well as moving applicants through the sheep and moose point pools much faster.
Have at it. Like I said, I’m not a resident so don’t have any say in what wyoming does. It’s no secret people are moving to wyoming at a good pace, so when 90/10 passes and the residents still bitch and moan who will you blame then? Or will it be a push for 95/5?
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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Have at it. Like I said, I’m not a resident so don’t have any say in what wyoming does. It’s no secret people are moving to wyoming at a good pace, so when 90/10 passes and the residents still bitch and moan who will you blame then? Or will it be a push for 95/5?
Can't predict the future, but from many, many conversations with a wide variety of hunters across the State, I think WY residents would be pretty happy to be treated the same as Residents in ID, MT, OR, CA, AZ, NV, etc. in regard to resident tag allocations. Or maybe more correctly, start treating WY NR's the same way we're treated as NR's in their states.

I don't find that an unreasonable expectation...you?

I can't speak for every WY Resident, but I've personally never complained once about NR allocations in the states I apply in: AK, NM, AZ, NV, UT, MT, CO, TX, ID, etc. etc.

If I find their allocations not to my liking I just don't apply anymore. So far, the only States I've had to make adjustments in applying are ID and NM. But, I don't begrudge their residents the right to allocate tags as they see fit.
 
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cking13

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May 20, 2017
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VA
No not at all. I get wanting 90/10, I really do. If I was a resident I’d probably want that myself. Just don’t get all the hate for NR. We’re just playing the game Wyoming set up. Seems every other post on certain forums and social media is wanting to keep ALL NR out. An extra 116 tags will make an extra 116 residents happIER. But I don’t think it’s gonna fix the issues that wyoming residents face.
 
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mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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I'm also tired of NR's telling Residents we have enough opportunity...most feel we don't. Just because we can draw a second choice pronghorn tag, and hunt general elk and deer, doesn't mean we want to hunt more often in LQ areas.

IMO/E, what the problem is the entitlement attitude the NR hunters have acquired through the years because of our generosity and graciousness. Nothing lasts forever, and the attitude expressed by the likes of jims, mallardsx2 and others only makes Residents want to fight even harder for more opportunity.
If you feel like residents of Wyoming don't currently have a ton of opportunity at more tags than they can fill in a year, then your either a fool or the greediest person on plant earth.

I specifically remember when you posted a picture of all of your tags you had in a prior year for the world to see. That was cute. Then you come on here flaunting your bullshit about not enough opportunity for residents. You're so greedy and full of shit it sickens me.

As far as fighting harder, that makes me chuckle. You are fighting so hard for this you took the time to post this bullshit on eastmans forum at 10:00 at night. Get a freaking life bro. Whats next 2:00AM updates? lol
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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No not at all. I get wanting 90/10, I really do. If I was a resident I’d probably want that myself. Just don’t get all the hate for NR. We’re just playing the game Wyoming set up. Seems every other post on certain forums and social media is wanting to keep ALL NR out. An extra 116 tags will make an extra 116 residents happIER. But I don’t think it’s gonna fix the issues that wyoming residents face.
Totally agree, 116 tags for sheep, moose, goat and bison isn't fixing the high demand and low supply.

No matter what the allocations are, the best way for both R and NR hunters to be happier is to increase supply (higher herd numbers).

The problem with that is...not many show up to do that work. Even fewer than bitch about tag allocations.

As a NR I'd rather have 10% of 1000 sheep tags, than 25% of 100...but, that's just me...
 
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