Texan bow hunter killed by Pennsylvanian muzzle loader

Turbodude

Active Member
Oct 17, 2017
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Red side of Ca
California does not have any requirement for hunter orange. Hunter there for 50 years and never had a problem. When I started hunting Colorado it was hard to get used to the "orange army". Hunted lots in Wyoming too, they only required an orange hat.
Don’t compare Commiefornia to the other great hunting states outside our borders, we are f’d up enough as it is. Besides, our big game hunting here sucks,
 

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
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problem with requiring orange is the fools soon begin to believe it is ok to shoot so long as no orange is seen.

it is a feel good law that ultimately causes more "accidents" than it prevents. imho
I understand your point but I do disagree in some situations. Orange can really help identify hunters in the background. I have had a few occasions where I didn't shoot, or asked others not to shoot, because someone wearing orange was in the distance behind the animal. At long distance, it's pretty hard to see a hunter sitting still, especially if you are focused on an animal between you.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Don’t compare Commiefornia to the other great hunting states outside our borders, we are f’d up enough as it is. Besides, our big game hunting here sucks,
Sorry dude, but I have hunted California since 1950 and it used to have great big game hunting. Look at my profile and the pictures I have posted, all of the bucks came from California. I have shot over 50 deer in California. My Dad taught hunter safety for 50 years and I taught with him for 15 of those years. If you are so fed up .....move. I did when I retired.
 

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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I understand your point but I do disagree in some situations. Orange can really help identify hunters in the background. I have had a few occasions where I didn't shoot, or asked others not to shoot, because someone wearing orange was in the distance behind the animal. At long distance, it's pretty hard to see a hunter sitting still, especially if you are focused on an animal between you.
it can help. sure. I would think we can all agree on that.

am just saying it can also hurt. I will double down on my above statement .
It is my OPINION it hurts more then it helps.
I see no orange so it must be fine, mentality is out there and there can be no arguing that.

I am not against orange. wear it or don't, I really couldn't care less either way.
truth is it no longer really matters if it hurts or helps. the "was he wearing orange" mentality already
has infected our population. once such happens there can no longer be any rationallity when debating the subject.

orange is here to stay. at least till hunting rights are gone it is.


lack of mandate does NOT place liability on F&G.
responsibility lies squarely on the shooter. makes no difference who was or wasn't wearing orange.


I would also add that it is my OPINION that calling this shooter a murderer is most likely an emotional, overreaction from a distraught, grieving mother.

I seriously doubt the shooter intended to kill this man.
sure, he was negligent and manslaughter could be on the table but murder seems a stretch.

I would refrain from calling it that unless intent were proven.
 

DanPickar

Active Member
Mar 4, 2014
290
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Wyoming
100% the shooters fault and should be held responsible. Hopefully, CPW will change the law allowing a muzzleloader season during archery season, which I have been a proponent of. Will not hunt Colorado again until they change this law! I am sorry for your loss, that is terrible to lose your son in a manor like that.
 

JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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I doubt that they will change the muzzle loader season but I can see them possibly having archery hunters wear some form of orange.

On the seasons there are now so many that there are going to be overlapping ones no matter what they do
 
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kidoggy

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I doubt that they will change the muzzle loader season but I can see them possibly having archery hunters wear some form of orange.

On the seasons there are now so many that there are going to be overlapping ones no matter what they do
they could just do like idaho did and cancel most all muzzleloader seasons. ain't much left to pick from anymore.
 

JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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I was talking to a friend about this just today and was thinking that if I was archery hunting when the muzzle loader was going on that I would be wearing some camo orange instead of full camo
 
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Timber Stalker

Active Member
May 22, 2020
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In a world where a person can sew for burning them a self with hot coffee, why not put in the big game regs if you bow hunt an area while there is a Muzzy season some idiot may shoot you.
it is the shooters fault 100% no in else to blame here. I’m sure stupid people still burn themselves with hot coffee we just don’t hear about it anymore. They can’t see now because it printed on the cup don’t burn yourself dumb ass.
im sorry for the loss of the bow Hunter but he should have and likely knew the risk. Several years ago my old hunting partner and I were elk hunting together. He decided to wear a brown carartt coat one day. A couple hours into the hunt I thought I saw an elk, i pulled my rifle and it was Sam. It scared the hell out of me. We all take risks when we hunt public land, it’s part of the deal. I’m sure everyone here has had a loaded rifle pointed at them at one time or another wether we know it or not. We all could be the victim of poor judgement if someone accidentally pulled the trigger. That’s the reality.
It’s a very sad situation and it will happen again somewhere no matter what laws are put in place.
 
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buckbull

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Jun 20, 2011
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In my state bow hunting is closed during the firearm season. And most hunters here hunt from treestands. Most of our hunting accidents occur during the spring turkey season. Everyone in camo and calling can increase the risk of an incidents.
 

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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it is not an "accident " if one pulls the trigger without confirming their target . it is manslaughter.
shooter deserves to be tried and if convicted given a fair but harsh punishment for being so stupid.

NO ONE ELSE IS AT FAULT!
not the victim ! not F&G! NOT THE GUN MANUFACTURER! ONLY THE SHOOTER!

the fact that ANYONE believes otherwise simply befuddles me!
though I don't know why??????????? humans are clearly not a rational species!

the debate is what is harsh but fair ??????

in my mind he should never again be allowed to own a firearm as he has clearly shown himself to be of poor judgement.

jail time ? probably . but truth is that hurts the law abiding more then it hurts him. unless we bring back chain gangs and make the inmates work for their existence.

large fines ?? fine by me . but not to the courts so much as to his victims loved ones. reparations.


it just seems to me weeding out the idiots would do more good than punishing the innocent.

but alas , that is simply not the society we live in any more . personal responsibility is no more . blame must be cast every which way.

I expect some will be cast to me simply for posting this.
 
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OLDMTNGUY

New Member
Nov 27, 2018
11
15
South Texas
First off, I have a 40 year old son who like his dad, loves to archery hunt.
I would be very hurt and angry if this stupid act of carelessness happened to him/me. So I understand moms feelings totally. That said. No amount of blame or lawsuits would bring him back or heal my pain. The only solace I would have is that he died doing something he loved. The shooter in this case was near my age. Old enough and hopefully experienced enough to know that no game bagged is worth a human life.
He made a mistake pulling the trigger. Actions have consequences and he needs to be held accountable.
No one else. Lawyers may argue otherwise to get the shooter off with lesser consequences similar to Alec Baldwin, and earn a living, but the bottom line is that guns are inanimate tools, used by us humans to get a job done. Like automobiles, if the operator uses the tool and kills someone, it’s on them.
 

Shane13

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
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Abilene, Texas
I don’t consider it an accident. He didn’t intentionally murder my son, but he intentionally pulled the trigger aimed at my son whom he did not see. CPW is responsible by allowing these seasons to overlap and not insisting all hunters wear Orange like we do in Texas. Thank you for your kind sympathy.
Hunter mom, I don't know if you're still reading this thread or not. But if you are, please know that my heart goes out to you and your family in your unimaginable time of loss. I just got off the phone with my adult son, who I hunt with often. I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I lost him, no matter the circumstances. Y'all are in my prayers.

As many have said already, I hope you'll eventually direct your understandable and justifiable anger toward the single person responsible for this terrible tragedy. Neither CPW nor all the other hunters caused it. Only the shooter.

I'd also just like to point out that Texas does not require any hunter to wear orange in any season, other than the handful of draw hunts on public land that TPWD puts on. The vast majority of hunters in Texas aren't required to wear orange at all, and probably less than 1% ever do. The only time I ever wear orange in Texas (other than the draw hunts mentioned) is when I'm hunting quail or pheasant. It's not required, but it's a good idea to wear orange while upland bird hunting, in my opinion.

I'd also point out that, even though orange is not required in Colorado's archery season, your son could have worn orange anyway during his hunt that coincided with the muzzleloader season. As far as I know, Colorado doesn't prohibit blaze orange during archery hunts. That said, it shouldn't have mattered if your son was wearing orange or camo. The shooter should have been sure of his target and everything beyond it before pulling the trigger. As said above....rule #1.

I hope that God will bless and comfort your family as only He can. I am so, SO sorry for your loss.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Hunter mom, I don't know if you're still reading this thread or not. But if you are, please know that my heart goes out to you and your family in your unimaginable time of loss. I just got off the phone with my adult son, who I hunt with often. I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I lost him, no matter the circumstances. Y'all are in my prayers.

As many have said already, I hope you'll eventually direct your understandable and justifiable anger toward the single person responsible for this terrible tragedy. Neither CPW nor all the other hunters caused it. Only the shooter.

I'd also just like to point out that Texas does not require any hunter to wear orange in any season, other than the handful of draw hunts on public land that TPWD puts on. The vast majority of hunters in Texas aren't required to wear orange at all, and probably less than 1% ever do. The only time I ever wear orange in Texas (other than the draw hunts mentioned) is when I'm hunting quail or pheasant. It's not required, but it's a good idea to wear orange while upland bird hunting, in my opinion.

I'd also point out that, even though orange is not required in Colorado's archery season, your son could have worn orange anyway during his hunt that coincided with the muzzleloader season. As far as I know, Colorado doesn't prohibit blaze orange during archery hunts. That said, it shouldn't have mattered if your son was wearing orange or camo. The shooter should have been sure of his target and everything beyond it before pulling the trigger. As said above....rule #1.

I hope that God will bless and comfort your family as only He can. I am so, SO sorry for your loss.
Well said.
 

Travis907

New Member
Jun 26, 2019
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Indiana
Terrible tragedy and sorry for your loss. No one should have to endure that pain! You I’ll be in our prayers!!!

The shooter is indeed responsible for pulling the trigger. Once the trigger is pulled we can never take back that shot. It’s the hunters responsibility to identify his target at all times and know what’s in front and behind his target. Basic hunter ed 101!!

Here in Indiana if you use archery equipment in firearm or muzzleloader season you are required to wear a piece of hunter orange clothing. That is a great law I totally agree with. Even if your hiking the mountain during any firearm season it’s a good idea to wear some hunter orange, you just never can be too safe out there. Safety is our #1 goal and is all of our responsibility’s
 

Zim

Very Active Member
Feb 28, 2011
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LaPorte, IN
Very sorry to the Hunter Mom for this tragedy.
One of the reasons 95% of my own hunting is via bow, to minimize the chance of encountering a bullet while in the field. I am looking at burning a lot of points on a CO archery elk hunt in 2022 but I am not happy about the overlapping muzzleloader season. I think that’s just plain stupid. I would hunt during that overlap, but mostly over water from my climbing treestand. I wish I had better options but at my point level I don’t see any.
 

JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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Zim, while it isn't legal for the orange requirement during rifle or muzzle loader hunt get some camouflage orange to put on if you are going to be out during the muzzle loader.
 
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