Texan bow hunter killed by Pennsylvanian muzzle loader

Hunter mom

New Member
Oct 17, 2021
7
8
I am the mother of the young hunter that was murdered by the black powder shooter a month ago in the San Juan mountains of Colorado. I want to verify that my son did not have a decoy on his bow! I hold the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission responsible for the killing of my son and intend to follow up in that!! Thank you.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Veteran member
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
I sympathized with Hunter mom and feel really sad about losing her son in this accident. I don't see how Colorado Parks & Wildlife can be held responsible for this ACCIDENT. I really don't see how the muzzle loading hunter murdered the bowhunter on purpose.

Sorry for your loss.
 
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Hunter mom

New Member
Oct 17, 2021
7
8
I don’t consider it an accident. He didn’t intentionally murder my son, but he intentionally pulled the trigger aimed at my son whom he did not see. CPW is responsible by allowing these seasons to overlap and not insisting all hunters wear Orange like we do in Texas. Thank you for your kind sympathy.
 
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87TT

Active Member
Apr 23, 2013
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686
Idaho
I also believe the CPW is to blame for contributing to this senseless tragedy. I have always thought it stupid to allow any firearms during bow season. Having a muzzleloader season and allowing these modern muzzleloaders is a joke. My heart goes out to you and your family.
 
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Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
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Eastern Nebraska
I truly sympathize with the family suffering from the loss of a loved one. It's a terrible thing that happened. That said, cpw is not to blame. Many states have accident free firearm seasons with no orange requirement. This tragedy happened because a hunter made an extremely bad decision to shoot at an unverified target. He violated the number one rule taught by all 50 states hunter safety programs. No laws or rules can prevent this type of blatant carelessness. Also, I can say from experience, no money gained from a lawsuit will fix this situation for your family.

It is possible laws could be changed. Seasons may be separated. Orange requirements May be instituted. I would ask the family to consider one thing. Your son intentionally hunted this season knowing the rules, requirements, and laws. He had options to hunt somewhere else, or at a different time, but didn't for a reason. Please consider what his opinion would be. If it were me, I would genuinely hope my family wouldn't try to change, or potentially damage, hunting opportunities for others in the future.

Again, my families prayers go out to all involved.
 

Ed Burchfield

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
1
2
I know accidents can happen, but this was not an accident. An accident would have been a bullet passing through an elk and killing Greg. When you don’t identify your target it is not an accident, it is plain and simple negligence by definition.” Negligence – Failure to take proper care in doing something.”
To back up Greg's Mom's point CPW needs to separate muzzle loader from archery. It is no longer a "primitive weapon" you can easily get a 300yd shot off with muzzle loaders now days.

I love you Hunter Mom, you know who this is.
 
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Hunter mom

New Member
Oct 17, 2021
7
8
I know accidents can happen, but this was not an accident. An accident would have been a bullet passing through an elk and killing Greg. When you don’t identify your target it is not an accident, it is plain and simple negligence by definition.” Negligence – Failure to take proper care in doing something.”
To back up Greg's Mom's point CPW needs to separate muzzle loader from archery. It is no longer a "primitive weapon" you can easily get a 300yd shot off with muzzle loaders now days.

I love you Hunter Mom, you know who this is.
Thank you ❤
 
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wy-tex

Veteran member
May 2, 2016
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SE Wyoming
I too feel for your loss.
Nothing kept your son from wearing orange, we saw archery hunters in western Wyo wearing an orange hat during their bow hunt just because rifle deer was also open. Many archers were not wearing orange and that was their decision.

I too agree that is was negligence, not an accident. CP&W however is not responsible, the hunter is. Not your son, the other hunter.
No mother ever expects to bury their own son, my heart goes out to your family.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,296
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Not to Hi-jack the thread but if I had $20 for every time I saw a muzzleloader hunting the flattops with no orange on at all I could pay for a good portion of my tag next year. I'm not even joking either.
Its a circus out there for sure and the exact reason why I will likely never hunt archery during the Colorado muzzleloader season with my bow again. I will either hunt before or after but not during.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
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idaho
I don’t consider it an accident. He didn’t intentionally murder my son, but he intentionally pulled the trigger aimed at my son whom he did not see. CPW is responsible by allowing these seasons to overlap and not insisting all hunters wear Orange like we do in Texas. Thank you for your kind sympathy.
while I feel nothing but sympathy for your loss ,I must admit I feel disapointment and even anger for your holding anyone but the shooter responsible for your sons death.
the only responsible party is the shooter . period!
if you hold p&w responsible , then by the very same logic your own son shares the blame also. he knew the laws or risk and went anyhow . if this is not true he is still to be held responsible because ignorance of laws does not relinquish responsibility.


tobe clear .... I do NOT blame your son but by your own logic , you MUST!

it is exactly this type of irrational, emotional response that gets laws passed that punish the innocent and while I sympathize with your loss ,I simply can not condone your response! it is the exact response we get after every "mass shooting" incident that leads to folks calling for tougher gun control laws , that ,in the end do nothing but punish the innocent!

in your grief you wish to punish. understandable . but punishing the innocent will not bring your son back and though I never knew him I doubt it is what he would wish!

my greatest prayer for you beyond the lord easing your suffering is for you to remember that to forgive is divine.
not saying you should or should not forgive . simply to contemplate it is an option. and most likely the one to ease your pain the most. you do not forgive for the sake of the guilty but for the well being of your own soul.
I also pray you will take some time to really think on this before you act.

I hope you take this to heart and are not offended by my view. know that offense is not my intent ! I merely post this in hopes you can see reason through your grief!
I truly am sorry for your loss!!!!! my heart is crushed that you must endure this tragedy.
 
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kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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idaho
I also believe the CPW is to blame for contributing to this senseless tragedy. I have always thought it stupid to allow any firearms during bow season. Having a muzzleloader season and allowing these modern muzzleloaders is a joke. My heart goes out to you and your family.
stupid ??? maybe . wise to change the law? perhaps , even probably.

but in the end those who hunt these seasons should know the law before they go and no one drug them out there against their will.
we already have laws in place to punish the guilty . do we really need more to punish the innocent?????????????

I think not.
therefore,I simply can not agree with the OPs stance.
 
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Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
Not to Hi-jack the thread but if I had $20 for every time I saw a muzzleloader hunting the flattops with no orange on at all I could pay for a good portion of my tag next year. I'm not even joking either.
Its a circus out there for sure and the exact reason why I will likely never hunt archery during the Colorado muzzleloader season with my bow again. I will either hunt before or after but not during.
That is exactly why I quit hunting muzzle loader season here in Colorado.
 

JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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What it comes down to is hunter responsibility and knowing what they are shooting at before that trigger is pulled.

There are a number of states that do not require any form of hunter orange on the hunter for any season. Arizona being one of them, Utah also has regulations where in once in a lifetime tags hunts and a couple of others where the hunter does not need to wear any hunter orange either.

Perhaps Colorado needs to change the bow hunting regulations for the week that the muzzle loader hunt is going on to require the bow hunters to wear camouflage hunter orange. Utah already allows it during their big game rife hunts.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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California does not have any requirement for hunter orange. Hunter there for 50 years and never had a problem. When I started hunting Colorado it was hard to get used to the "orange army". Hunted lots in Wyoming too, they only required an orange hat.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
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problem with requiring orange is the fools soon begin to believe it is ok to shoot so long as no orange is seen.

it is a feel good law that ultimately causes more "accidents" than it prevents. imho
 

dan maule

Very Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
863
985
Upper Michigan
problem with requiring orange is the fools soon begin to believe it is ok to shoot so long as no orange is seen.

it is a feel good law that ultimately causes more "accidents" than it prevents. imho
I agree 100%, every time there is a hunting accident where someone gets shot the first question that’s asked is “was he wearing orange “. As though if he wasn’t it’s his fault he got shot. It is ridiculous to blame anyone but the shooter even if the guys wearing a brown jacket. You hit the nail on the head in my opinion, to many hunters think if they don’t see orange they have a green light to shoot.
 

badgerbob

Active Member
May 18, 2015
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Eastern Oregon
I think the bottom line here is that a hunter should be capable of taking to the field and completing a safe hunt, regardless of the conditions. We send thousands of 12 year olds, fresh out of that Hunter Safety Course, out every year and expect that same thing from them. Are we to expect less from ourselves? No matter what rules are in place or what hunt overlaps with another, we should be able to do it safely. No excuse for no target ID...one of the most important rules.
 

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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I agree 100%, every time there is a hunting accident where someone gets shot the first question that’s asked is “was he wearing orange “. As though if he wasn’t it’s his fault he got shot. It is ridiculous to blame anyone but the shooter even if the guys wearing a brown jacket. You hit the nail on the head in my opinion, to many hunters think if they don’t see orange, they have a green light to shoot.
thanks, dan.
you'd think all hunters could at least agree on that point but alas, even here on this site there are some who believe exactly that way.

unfortunately, that is the mind set orange laws invoke. it releases the ignorant from any sense of personal responsibility.

that is the society we live in today though. nothing is our fault and never take responsibility for ones screwups.

in Idaho orange is not required. it is suggested, so the foolishness is coming here also but not yet required.
yet somehow, we manage to muddle through the seasons with very few "accidents".
when an "accident" does happen, it is often amongst the "orange army".

maybe it is time all hunters were required to wear full combat gear?????? if we did this, maybe all could feel all warm and fuzzy inside.;)
 
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