Rattle snake avoidance training

Gr8bawana

Veteran member
Aug 14, 2014
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Nevada
Our vet does not recommend it. He also said the vaccines are not very effective and only give peace of mind to dog owners.

METHODS – The ‘clinicians’ drag a dog up to a de-fanged prairie rattlesnake, even if the dog is naturally trying to avoid the snake, they will take it up close anyway. Then they give a harsh, heavy, and punishing electric shock to the dog, that most of the time lifts them off the ground screaming. It is so violent and traumatic that many dogs never recover. NOT TO MENTION, the dogs standing in line watching this, and trying to get away, are restrained and made to watch and experience the horror, as they wait in line for their turn.
Then, many of these ‘clinicians’ will take the snake, and place it on a dogs back, and shock the hell out of the dog again, all the while the dog is trying to avoid everything.
To state this another way, so there is no confusion for those that might be slightly desensitized to hearing about this, the electric shock is not used politely or with any care. It is an excessive amount of electricity for a prolonged period, delivered to the dogs neck, to purposefully cause great pain and excessive fear. And most dogs don’t even know why.
Another method is to have a small trail system, and around every corner is a de-fanged snake either in a cage or tied to a post. With a dog on leash and an electric shock collar around their neck, the ‘clinician’ will walk the dog down what seems like a nice trail, and then gives them a severe and punishing HIGH level shock as soon as the flag or cage appears. It doesn’t matter if the dog didn’t see it, didn’t acknowledge it, or was already trying to avoid it. This goes on and on through the little trail system, at every turn. The ‘little trail of horrors’. I have never seen a dog who ever recovered from this type of training, and most dogs remained fearful and did not trust new environments. Many of these dogs remain highly reactive to men after being handled by the ‘clinicians’. No surprise there.
The dogs are being corrected and punished for something, most of the time they are either trying to avoid, or were unaware of.
To say this is over kill would be an understatement. Most dogs, most mammals, have a primal instinct to avoid reptiles. I know that during the past forty years hiking with my dogs, I have never had a single one of my dogs ever go to investigate a snake, and we have come across enough for me to notice their reactions.
 

nv-hunter

Veteran member
Feb 28, 2011
1,212
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Reno
Your description is so far from what went on its hard to imagine coming from you. Normally your input is well researched and educated. Copied from peta or save the coyotes websites?

Thanks for playing tho
 
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87TT

Active Member
Apr 23, 2013
323
183
Idaho
I've had my dogs through it by three different providers. Never saw anything like that. I call BS on that. As for the vet not recommending the Vaccine, I would get a new vet. It is not an end all cure but could save your dogs life. It is only meant to slow the effects so you can get to the vet. I swear by the training. We have snakes all around the property here. Have shot two Rattle snakes this year. My dog went through the training two years ago and will take a long wide route around a snake now. I've watched her jump back from a bull snake as soon as she saw it. I also use the E collar on my dog to break bad habits like chasing deer and the like. My dog is like my kid. Most of the time I just have to vibrate it. Oh and I test it on my fingers before I put it on her.
 

jtm307

Active Member
Jan 12, 2016
165
6
Wyoming
Our ... reactions.
Holy smokes! That exageration makes me wonder if that post was made jokingly.

This weekend I was with a dog who got bit on the nose by a rattler. Fortunately, the snake did not inject venom. We killed the snake, and I brought my dogs (separately) into the scent cone of the snake a few feet away. As soon as they showed interest in the scent, I stimulated them with the e-collar on a very high setting (an ecollar will not physically harm a dog, although it must be used properly to prevent behavioral problems). After two or three walks into the scent cone, my dogs would not go near the snake. My dogs, one in particular, were very interested in the snake prior to stimulation, so the idea that dogs naturally avoid reptiles is wrong. Dogs do not fear snakes.
 
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30338

New Member
Mar 6, 2019
14
2
My dog has been through the training twice and has had 2 years of vaccine. He is a high prey drive drahthaar and I think he now has an understanding that snakes are not his friend. If something goes wrong hunting, I will know I did all I could to prevent it. Pack Benadryl and know where vets are located if hunting in warm weather in snake country.
 

nv-hunter

Veteran member
Feb 28, 2011
1,212
540
Reno
UPDATE: About 2 weeks ago we had a snake under some powder river panels we were moving and after I killed it our hound cross that went thru the training came up the hill to where we were, I just watched as she got close to where the snake was laying and as soon as she hit that sent cone she jumped and yelped and trotted back to the house while talking about it. Not a bark or a full blown howl but in between no doubt it worked with her. I took it down to the house and the poodle didn't pay any attention for awhile but when she settled down you could tell she didn't like something but not the same big reaction as the hound .
 

Don Fischer

New Member
Jul 20, 2020
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20
I've had one dog bit by a snake, Didn't know it at first, he got pretty lethargic and didn't want to go faster than a slow walk. Took him home thinking he was just tired. Next morning his leg was the size of the fat end of a baseball bat. Called the vet and got himin. He spent a day in there. Turned out they found the bite on his ankle. Was swollen up a few days then went away. I've never had avoidence training done and never will. Much easier on the dog to put off hunting till it get's cold enough to put the snakes in. Before that bite I dd hunt early but never took the dog's around lot's of rocks which I figure means snake dens. had a vet at a club meeting years ago and when asked about snake bite his answer was, don't worry about it. Most bite's are dry and infect from a filthy snake mouth. If the bite is not dry before you can get to the vet, the dog will probably be dead or better. Not all that comforting! Another thing I read about them is generally the poison won't kill them unless it is a big snake, equals lot's of venom. What happen's is the swelling blocks some function the dog needs to live and that kills the dog. Read of a dog bite on the nose. Swelled up really bad but the owner never took it to any vet. Fortunate thing seemed to be it was on the nose. In the neck and the swelling would have closed the air passage.

But for avoiding snake bite I can't think of anything better than holding off hunting till the snakes go to den, if, of course, I live somewhere it get's cold enough to put them down. I would not hunt birds in a southern state with warm winter's. Odds of getting a dog bit are small but I still won't risk it. Once was enough!
 
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87TT

Active Member
Apr 23, 2013
323
183
Idaho
My dog gets her vaccine every year. A couple of days ago I went out for her to do her business and she was walking along in front of me when she jumped back so fast she almost knocked me down. Right where she was walking was a 2 ft rattler. She had the training a couple of years ago and will have nothing to do with any snake. Numerous times I have seen her suddenly back away and have found it to be a snake. Not always a rattlesnake but........ Have had two rattlers in the yard in the last week. Can't avoid them. Like putting a fence around your yard and not teaching your kids to look out for cars. Training has worked for my dogs.
 

JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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I remember a couple of hunters from California that I ran into one February down in Arizona while I was hunting javelina. They were hunting quail with a couple of Britney's and said that they were not worried about snakes at that time of year.

I looked at where they were running their dogs and told them to avoid a couple of areas in the canyon, they asked me why and I told them that the snakes were out of their dens during the day. They didn't believe me until I pulled out my camera and showed them a few pictures that I had taken the day before. They quickly called their dogs back and loaded them up.
 

mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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Good discussion here fellas, lots of food for thought. My lab gets the vaccine every year but never been snake trained. I don't take him into areas he's likely to encounter snakes until it gets cold, same reason I don't take my kids into grizzly country.
Unless they are misbehaving...then you can use that as leverage! lol
 

mallardsx2

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Jul 8, 2015
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lol

I told my 9 year old stepdaughter that if someone ever kidnapped her she would have road rash. She said "Why?"
I said "It will be from where they returned you and tossed you out of the speeding car on the road in front of the house after about 5 minutes of having to deal with you..."

She thought it was pretty funny. Thankfully she is developing a playful sense of humor the older she gets haha

Unknown to her at this point in her life is that I would handle the situation in my own backwoods way to the end of the earth but I dont tell her that. I have to act tuff...you know, because its what dads do..or I think its what we are suppose to do?? lol
 
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cacklercrazy

Member
Feb 24, 2011
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19
Good discussion here fellas, lots of food for thought. My lab gets the vaccine every year but never been snake trained. I don't take him into areas he's likely to encounter snakes until it gets cold, same reason I don't take my kids into grizzly country.
Does anyone know if a Epi pen could help a dog or for that matter a hunter after been struck by a snake?
 

PatrickLor

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