Last Ditch Option on Inaccurate Rifle

[hoshour]

Quite a few years ago I bought a used Savage 110 in .30/06 for cheap. I think Savage rifles are really accurate out of the box and if I was buying a new rifle, that's the brand I'd buy, but this used gun was very inaccurate from the first time I shot it. I don't know if it's worn out or if it can be saved.

While I was hunting a few years ago, I slipped climbing up some rocks, dropped the gun and the stock broke right at the grip. I probably should have just trashed it but instead I thought I'd try my hand at some amateur gunsmithing. So, I replaced the broken stock with a laminated stock, glass and pillar bedded it, tried different brands of ammo and dang...it still shoots 2 1/2" groups at 100. I've tried keeping the far end of barrel free-floating and I've tried giving it a little support. Even changed the scope. Doesn't matter. I shoot sub-MOA with my .270, so it's not the shooter.

Any last ideas before I get rid of it? I've thought of lapping the barrel but my guess is it's just a bad barrel. I don't shoot enough to reload.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Before you do anything else, take to your local 'smith and have the barrel bore scope inspected. As long as it is there, I would also headspace it and check the trigger pull. (my preference would be between 2 1/2 & 3# trigger) The next thing I would do is totally free float the barrel. I'll PM you tomorrow with a few more things that might be in question.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

Clean the copper out of it and then clean the copper out of it and then clean the copper out of it. You did not mention that you have tried this. I had a Howa that would copper up after only a box of shells. It might take several days/nights but it is worth a try.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

Both the Savage 110's I have shoot lights out. One is old, from the 70s, and has a very long throat. I have another with a shorter throat and they shoot well but with much different loads. Did you bed the savage on the action screws? The savage should have a floating rear tang for best accuracy. Lots of guys bed the rear tang, but there's no screw there like on other makes. They'll shoot with it bedded, but in my experience not as well. I suspect the rifle can be made to shoot relatively easily.

 

[Tim McCoy]

Have you done a deep cleaning and copper removal? If not, do so, shoot it again, before paying a gunny. If you have done a deep decopper type cleaning, a bore scope inspection is a good idea. What bothers me is the dropping story, there is a possibility a drop severe enough to break a stock has caused other issues. Anything from stock pressure on the receiver to tweaking the metal to ?

You are in it cheap, so odds are you may be throwing good money after bad by paying a gunny much. Savage barrels are very easy to replace... You may be $ ahead to take it off and buy a factory savage barrel in your favorite "06" family cartridge. I've seen factory take
off barrels for sale by some shops. May be worth calling a few gunny's to see if they have any laying around. It's easier to replace a savage barrel than glass and pillar bed a stock IMO. Takes a vice, a wrench and a gauge or two, iirc.

 

[Horsenhike]

Rear tang free floated?

How many types of ammo did you try?

Free floated the whole barrel?

How's the crown look?

Did you scrub the bore?

 

[hoshour]

Rear tang free floated?

How many types of ammo did you try?

Free floated the whole barrel?

How's the crown look?

Did you scrub the bore?

Tang is free floated. Barrel is free floated, though I also tried it with a little support there. Crown looks good. Not sure what you men by scrubbing the bore, other than running a wire brush down it. The inside is bright as a mirror.

I tried four brands of ammo.

 

[hoshour]

Have you done a deep cleaning and copper removal? If not, do so, shoot it again, before paying a gunny. If you have done a deep decopper type cleaning, a bore scope inspection is a good idea. What bothers me is the dropping story, there is a possibility a drop severe enough to break a stock has caused other issues. Anything from stock pressure on the receiver to tweaking the metal to ?

You are in it cheap, so odds are you may be throwing good money after bad by paying a gunny much. Savage barrels are very easy to replace... You may be $ ahead to take it off and buy a factory savage barrel in your favorite "06" family cartridge. I've seen factory take
off barrels for sale by some shops. May be worth calling a few gunny's to see if they have any laying around. It's easier to replace a savage barrel than glass and pillar bed a stock IMO. Takes a vice, a wrench and a gauge or two, iirc.

I had thought of just buying a barrel for it. But, I think I'll see about copper removal first.

The last time I shot it was several years ago when I was a little newer at things. So, I'm thinking that back then I may not have let the barrel cool long enough between rounds after shooting 3-shot groups in the heat of summer.

The only range within an hour of me is the local gun and pistol club that is $500 to join and $300/year (too much for me as little as I shoot), so sighting in around here is far from convenient. But, I just found out my neighbor is down there almost every day and I didn't even know he was a shooter. I might be able to go with him as a guest and shoot this thing again soon.

 

[PlainsHunter]

Might just be a non-shooter. Maybe the barrel wasn't quite right when it left the factory.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Tang is free floated. Barrel is free floated, though I also tried it with a little support there. Crown looks good. Not sure what you men by scrubbing the bore, other than running a wire brush down it. The inside is bright as a mirror.

I tried four brands of ammo.

I have my first rifle I ever owned...a surplus 1903 Springfield, 30-06. It was made in 1927. My Grandfather got it from the NRA in about 1950. Totally sportized, as we did with lots of military stuff back then. After many years it started shooting lousy, first thought was barrels shot. I decided to "scrub" the barrel. There are lots of bore cleaners out there, but I bought some spray foam cleaner. Plug the chamber, I used a rubber stopper. fill the barrel with the spray foam and plug the crown. Left it over night. Drained and started scrubbing. Lots of nasty, greenish looking crap all over the patches. Repeat until you get clean patches. I used 1/2 of the spray foam and finally a week later it was clean. Guess what...groups back to less then 1".

 

[Tim McCoy]

I'll take a shot at the bore scrubbing idea. Not an expert here. I rarely use a wire brush. But at times they are needed I guess, or at least a nylon brush. I use nylon when a brush is needed. If one has used regular gun cleaning solvents, most are good at getting most crud out, mostly carbon fouling. Some are better than others with copper removal, but no general bore cleaner I know of is adequate for serious copper fouling.

Up until a few years ago, serious copper removal took an ammonia based solvent, an abrasive compound or a electric bore probe cleaning process for the most part. The first two can ruin a barrel if miss used, the last takes a bunch of equipment. Now, there are purpose made non corrosive copper removers, like KG-12. You may know all of this and maybe more, but if not, I'd suggest getting some KG-12. Clean out all the regular crud, then follow the instructions, maybe with 2-3 x. There are tests you can google that show what cuts copper or the copper based alloy most bullets use.

You can use ammonia based copper removers, they work great, but if left on metal, will ruin it. They do show blue if copper is present. The KG line will only show a little discoloration for copper, so are best when you know you started with a recently coppered bore IMO. Most of the time, I use patches for copper removal, as it is the time in contact with the cleaner that eats the copper, not a scrubbing with a brush, again assuming a relatively recently coppered bore. I always clean out the regular carbon fouling first.

I still recall my first ammonia based copper remover. Old O3-A3 in 06, shot OK, not great. After a few seasons, I read about the copper issue. Put an ammonia based clearer through it, let's just say the affluent was brite blue for 10-12 cleanings. Probably never been done. Afterwards, shot well, groups shrank by about 1/2. Now I know what's up that way, any used rifle I buy gets a deep clean, followed
by a good decoppering. Or should I say gilding metal removal for most bullets. If new to copper removal, I'd get some Barnes copper remover, the smelly ammonia stuff, so I had the visual clues, and when done, scrub the heck out of it with non corrosive bore cleaner 3-4 times. Then go to KG-12 or the like. After that if is shoots, it was copper, if not, back to the other possibilities.

 

[Slugz]

I have my first rifle I ever owned...a surplus 1903 Springfield, 30-06. It was made in 1927. My Grandfather got it from the NRA in about 1950. Totally sportized, as we did with lots of military stuff back then. After many years it started shooting lousy, first thought was barrels shot. I decided to "scrub" the barrel. There are lots of bore cleaners out there, but I bought some spray foam cleaner. Plug the chamber, I used a rubber stopper. fill the barrel with the spray foam and plug the crown. Left it over night. Drained and started scrubbing. Lots of nasty, greenish looking crap all over the patches. Repeat until you get clean patches. I used 1/2 of the spray foam and finally a week later it was clean. Guess what...groups back to less then 1".

View attachment 18622

We had the same experience with a ? Enfield ?EddyStone? I gotta go look at the stamps on it again......its that one I posted with too many stamps on it to make sense......but same deal with the Hoppes foam cleaner. Not sure if this is good data or not.....but it seems to to me that once we made the switch to shooting Nosler Accubonds or Ballistic Tips almost exclusively or greater than 98% of the time......both my son and I thought we were getting a lot more copper buildup than before. Like 50% more if that makes sense.

 

[kerrek]

Maybe a stupid question, but have you tried different bullet weights?

 

[SansSouci]

Computer aided manufacturing has removed human error from production. Many inexpensive rifles will shoot like rifles costing much more. If your rifle was manufactured before CAM, its lack of accuracy might be expensive to repair.

Here's my opinion: if I couldn't get a rifle to shoot after more than reasonable attempts, I'd try to sell it. I have too guilty a conscience, so I'd have to disclose to a potential buyer that I couldn't get it to shoot.

Two factors I can't live without in a hunting rifle: 100% reliability and very good accuracy. I'm good walking up on dead big game animals. I've had to walk up on two mule deer on which I had blown shots. To this very day, I can see them in my mind's eye as they were trying to get up. Wounding big game screws with my conscience. That's why I love accurate rifles. Shots that destroy oxygenated blood pumping equipment will be dead when I get to them, for nothing living remains in that condition sans topside oxygenated blood flow.

 

[hoshour]

Update -

I decided to try adding some glass bedding under the first 3" of the barrel and let everything forward of that float.

Because the first go-round had been my first ever attempt at glass bedding and I saw that I maybe put in a bit much, I removed some of it so that it is now a bit less than 1/8" below my pillar tops and will add new glass on top of that. The dry fit seems like the barrel and action sit more like they should and everything works freely at that height.

I then removed just a bit more stock from around the tang and from the forend where it turns out there was some contact with the barrel. And, I cleaned the copper from the barrel.

When I get a chance to get down to the range, I'll let you know how it shoots.