Another Wolf Lawsuit

WY ME

Very Active Member
Feb 4, 2014
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Wyoming
A new wolf lawsuit was filed in Idaho yesterday. Western Watersheds Project and 4 other groups are seeking to shut down wolf hunting in Idaho once again. This crap sure gets old!

The USFWS estimates Idaho's wolf population at 786 as of the end of 2015. The feds require a minimum of 150 wolves. At the current population estimate, Idaho is expected to lose nearly 18,000 elk sized ungulates or an equivalent combination of elk, moose, deer this year.

Good luck Idaho.
 

Musket Man

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I thought part of the last deal was they couldnt sue anymore? 786 is the minimum which means thats how many they counted, we probabally have 2500 of them in Idaho....
 

WY ME

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Feb 4, 2014
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I agree that these numbers are no doubt on the conservative side but I use them because they are what the feds are using. The envirusmentalists are winning the battle so far. Their objective of eliminating the need for humans to scientifically manage big game populations is succeeding.
 

mntnguide

Very Active Member
From what I gather...The lawsuit is not going after hunting at all because i do believe they arent allowed to sue on that anymore...What it seems to be going after is the Wildlife Services who do the killing of wolves after cattle attacks etc..using all methods including helicopters.. I dont think the lawsuit will hold much ground considering about 350 wolves were killed in total last year, and the end of year population count still came to be the same as the year before. But it is a royal pain that they keep trying this stuff. . Wyoming needs to get back on board to get the wolf situation figured out, because it seems the grizzly issue is all that is being talked about now.
 

WY ME

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Feb 4, 2014
549
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Wyoming
The groups state they are suing to stop Wildlife Services from killing more wolves but here's a quote from them:

The agency’s environmental analysis from 2011 is woefully outdated due to changing circumstances, including new recreational hunting and trapping that kills hundreds of wolves in Idaho each year, and significant changes in scientific understanding of wolves and ecosystem functions”.

It appears to me that their ultimate unstated goal is more broad reaching than just Wildlife Services.
 

WY ME

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Feb 4, 2014
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mntnguide

IMO the wolves are responsible for the cessation of moose hunting in Minnesota which may now lead to those moose being listed on the Endangered Species Act (see my post in the Moose Section)
 

mntnguide

Very Active Member
I saw that post..Unreal..And just look at what has happened to our population of moose here in Western WY since wolves were introduced. What was once the stronghold of the Shiras and one of the best places in the lower 48 to see them, has been reduced by incredible amounts. The outfit i used to guide for up in the Teton wilderness used to guide moose hunters non-stop to great bulls, now there hasnt even been a single tag issued in the wilderness area in over 5 years due to the decimation of the population. The wolves just thrive on killing moose in winter because those bulls and cows will stay in deeper snow than elk, and just create their own small area to live in, and to the wolves its like hunting in a zoo...

mntnguide

IMO the wolves are responsible for the cessation of moose hunting in Minnesota which may now lead to those moose being listed on the Endangered Species Act (see my post in the Moose Section)
 

kidoggy

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I agree that you are probably right on with that thought. . Those groups want nothing more than to take away all hunting at the cost of all other wildlife for those damn predators.
yup.only they won't stop at hunting, they want your guns.
truth is they actually care nothing about the wolves either.the wolves are just a money making ,means to an end. ultimate goal is to submit us all to their will. there is a name for an unarmed public... SLAVE.
 

ivorytip

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Mar 24, 2012
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yup.only they won't stop at hunting, they want your guns.
truth is they actually care nothing about the wolves either.the wolves are just a money making ,means to an end. ultimate goal is to submit us all to their will. there is a name for an unarmed public... SLAVE.
I agree 100% with what you said
 

kidoggy

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money makes the world go round. but it actually is much, much more ominus then that.
the wolves, are being used to shut down hunting and strip our guns .(and by doing so ,our freedom to oppose insanity)
they used the spotted owl and decimated our logging industry.
here in Idaho ,they even tried but failed to stop the air force bombing range by useing a snail that no one has ever seen or heard of (and most probably never even existed in the first place).
heck they even try to convince us that the world is warming and we's all goana die,( and they use the poor drowning polar bears to tug at the hearts of the morons who buy into it all).

WHY?

make no mistake it is not mere stupidity, (if only that were so) . it is a planned and systematic attempt to achieve total control over the masses. a strong and free U.S. is the only thing stopping the one world order from being ushered in.

have you(everyone in general) ever wondered why every policy made these days seems illogical and geared to destroy progress and prosperity?
if so, I just gave you the answer in a nutshell
 

Musket Man

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Jul 20, 2011
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I agree with you 100% but these wacko enviro groups like destroyers of wildlife are jumping on all this and filing lawsuits because they know they can get alot of liberals that support it all to donate money and there is also EAJ money. They are making money off all this endangered species and global warming BS and they jump on whatever will make them money. If no one donated to them and there was no EAJ money they would not file lawsuits.
 

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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there have and will always be emotional fools ready to part with their money, while not even knowing where there money is going. and there will always be those who strive to control others. we just have to keep fighting back as long as we draw breath. all we can hope to accomplish is to slow the spread of darkness that has enveloped our land.


heck I have members in my own family that have strong opinions but can give you absolutely zero reason for why they believe what they do.
a workmate of mine was railing against a dairy being built . when I asked him why, he stated it was only a mile from the flightline of an airbase and the flies would bring the planes down.lol,HOW DO YOU EVEN BEGIN TO ARGUE AGAINST THAT SORT OF GRAND LOGIC?

they think minimum wage should be raised. but have no concept of what that will do. BUT HEY, HIGHER WAGES SOUNDS GREAT.

a woman,on purpose,drove off a bridge killing herself and her three children. they think we should put up a barrier so it won't happen again. never mind the hundreds of miles of cliffs she could still have chosen from.

did you here about the train that spilled oil in mosier oregon?environmentalists are saying oil is to dangerous to transport by rail.yet they also will not allow pipelines to be built. or refineries on site for that matter.

I say all this ,simply to point out that humans are not rational animals
 
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laxwyo

Very Active Member
there have and will always be emotional fools ready to part with their money, while not even knowing where there money is going. and there will always be those who strive to control others. we just have to keep fighting back as long as we draw breath. all we can hope to accomplish is to slow the spread of darkness that has enveloped our land.


heck I have members in my own family that have strong opinions but can give you absolutely zero reason for why they believe what they do.
a workmate of mine was railing against a dairy being built . when I asked him why, he stated it was only a mile from the flightline of an airbase and the flies would bring the planes down.lol,HOW DO YOU EVEN BEGIN TO ARGUE AGAINST THAT SORT OF GRAND LOGIC?

they think minimum wage should be raised. but have no concept of what that will do. BUT HEY, HIGHER WAGES SOUNDS GREAT.

a woman,on purpose,drove off a bridge killing herself and her three children. they think we should put up a barrier so it won't happen again. never mind the hundreds of miles of cliffs she could still have chosen from.

did you here about the train that spilled oil in mosier oregon?environmentalists are saying oil is to dangerous to transport by rail.yet they also will not allow pipelines to be built. or refineries on site for that matter.

I say all this ,simply to point out that humans are not rational animals
I have a sad feeling that we're going to be on the losing side of history in another generation or so. I see Cecil the Lion and that Gorilla episode at the zoo and think to myself, "how can people be this crazy". People wished the kid had been killed instead of the gorilla! I would have shot that gorilla and every damn animal in the zoo if it meant saving my kid even if it had been my inattention that caused it. People have given names to wild animals and the slow humanization of them has begun. People already get more time for animal cruelty than they do for child molesting. It's gotten sad. But then again, maybe I spend too much time on the Internet and see only the crazies


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johnsd16

Active Member
Mar 16, 2014
353
4
N Idaho
Here are two very good resources from ID F&G on wolves and elk and deer populations, predattion, etc. The first is more comprehensive with more charts and graphs. The second is a year more recent.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/july182013_presentations/idaho.pdf
https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/wolves/reportAnnual14.pdf
Wow. As a scientist myself, these documents are disturbing. I didn't make it past the second page of the 2014 summary before something jumped out. Of 360 wolf deaths, the overwhelming majority were human related, and of those they could determine a cause of, only 0.6% were due to "natural causes".

ANY biologist, or scientist should know that number is ABSURD. The data is fundamentally flawed, in either collecting and or reporting.

"We documented 360 wolf mortalities in 2014, a 24% decrease from 2013 (Table 1, Figure 7). Nearly all documented mortalities of known cause (n = 344) were human-caused (n = 342; 99%)"

"Remaining wolf mortalities were attributed to unknown causes (n = 16). These mortality figures demonstrate patterns in known mortality, but do not represent all mortality."

"31 pups were fitted with light-weight (74 gram) expandable vhf collars. We confirmed 9 collars were shed or chewed off shortly after deployment, leaving 22 pups with viable collars. At the end of 2014, 7 collared pups were confirmed alive, 10 pups were confirmed dead, and 5 pups were of undetermined status (the collar was not detected or was transmitting a mortality signal but had not yet been recovered).

Two of the 10 mortalities were attributable to harvest. Cause of death for the remaining 8 mortalities could not be determined because of decomposition."

Show me any wild animal that has 0.6% natural mortality.

Looks like common sense left the intellectual buffet to make room for the main course of BIASED REPORTING.

To the casual reader, it appears that 99% of wolves are killed by man. We could just as easily dilute that number down by adding the unknowns to the denominator, or comment on how 80% of pups died from causes not related or attributed to humans.

Wow. Why in the world people love wolves so much is beyond me. As I have always said, I support a healthy managed population of wolves anywhere in the US that they reside, but allowing other species to suffer while they are unnecessarily protected is just plain old dumb. The MN goal is 1500, and we have 4500-6000+ depending on who's numbers you want to use at any given time. Why these animals are allowed to persist at populations 4-6x goal in multiple states is also just dumb. We have them on our property in central MN, lots of them. I like seeing the tracks, hearing them howl, but think that the "natural balance" (which consists of man as the apex predator in any environment he inhabits) needs to be maintained. Wolves and grizzlies need to be hunted to control population, to maintain fear of man, and to reduce human/livestock predator conflict.
 

kidoggy

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no ,I stand by no human is.everyone has at least one thing they cannot be rational about ,and let their feelings control them.
I do however agree libs are worst.