Wyoming Passes 90/10: The Worst Article You’ll Read This Year - by Guy Eastman

[wy-tex]

The entitled attitudes are on both sides it seems.
Residents, however, are "entitled" to some benefits of living in Wyoming. Hunting is one of them .

I don't think many residents are thinking in the "stick it to 'em mindset" as you stated. But it's easy to go that route when name calling starts, on both sides.
Lots of folks claiming federal land is owned by all and by God they should get the same hunting opportunities as residents on those lands. It is out there and pretty prevalent on some other forums and social media, not Western hunting forums and media. Mainly due to lack of knowledge about states rights on wildlife management. The comments get pretty testy, by both sides.

Good points though Hilltop, thanks.

 

[ScottR]

Honestly it is lack of education on both sides of the issue that breeds those attitudes. We will see how this plays out in the future, my gut says that we will be waiting a while for Deer, Elk and Antelope to hit 90/10. However, we could see that change fairly quick if the politics were right.

 

[BuzzH]

I should have stated it differently. It is obvious that non-residents would be upset over 90/10 - all residents know this regardless if they are or aren't on social media. My intention was to point out that residents aren't in an uproar about entitled attitudes. I have family members of all ages residing in Wyoming and talk regularly with quite a few other residents ranging from 18 to 80. I agree that most residents are in favor of 90/10 but it is purely to have more tags & chances to draw, not out of some fabricated stick it to the entitled whiners theme as Buzz suggests. From my experiences, attitudes like his are rare, thankfully.

Here is what I know. There are a small number of residents that show up to meetings, talk regularly with the game and fish, attend trw committee hearings, etc.

Those that are very involved want 90-10 to pass, and another group that shows up is the outfitter lobby.

To make 90-10 happen, those that are the most actively involved are talking more and more about cutting deals with outfitters. Many for the exact reason I'm telling you about, they are getting tired of nrs telling Wyoming how we should allocate our licenses.

If you don't think there is an entitlement attitude just read the comments about 90-10 passing for the big 5.

Nrs threatening to quit hunting Wyoming, quit applying, tying federal land ownership to wildlife, nrs saying they won't support rmef, wsf, mdf, and a host of other threats.

All because they feel entitled to a tag, a tag the state of Wyoming never promised anybody.

Like I said I have the pulse of what I'm hearing, seeing, and what those that are pushing for change are saying.

Deny it all you want....I heard for the last 6 years that 90-10 "will never pass", from all sorts of people. Including nrs who are now lashing out as though they weren't told this was going to happen.

Those that feel its not going to happen at some point for deer, elk, and pronghorn are in for another rude awakening.

 

[BuzzH]

Honestly it is lack of education on both sides of the issue that breeds those attitudes. We will see how this plays out in the future, my gut says that we will be waiting a while for Deer, Elk and Antelope to hit 90/10. However, we could see that change fairly quick if the politics were right.

I think it depends on how mule deer and pronghorn respond. If downward populations and reduced tags continue for another 3-5 years it's going to happen much sooner than you think. Residents are going to get tired of not drawing pronghorn and lq mule deer in the state they live in real fast. A real easy way to increase your draw odds is 90-10.

Nobody pushes for change when they have adequate opportunities, but that is drying up quick in Wyoming.

 

[ScottR]

I think it depends on how mule deer and pronghorn respond. If downward populations and reduced tags continue for another 3-5 years it's going to happen much sooner than you think. Residents are going to get tired of not drawing pronghorn and lq mule deer in the state they live in real fast. A real easy way to increase your draw odds is 90-10.

Nobody pushes for change when they have adequate opportunities, but that is drying up quick in Wyoming.

With the tough state of affairs on the mule deer herd that alone could push it. I'm hoping for a wet spring that doesn't kill this year's crop of fawns and helps with numbers. More animals in the field is the best option for the moment.

 

[Hilltop]

Here is what I know. There are a small number of residents that show up to meetings, talk regularly with the game and fish, attend trw committee hearings, etc.

Those that are very involved want 90-10 to pass, and another group that shows up is the outfitter lobby.

To make 90-10 happen, those that are the most actively involved are talking more and more about cutting deals with outfitters. Many for the exact reason I'm telling you about, they are getting tired of nrs telling Wyoming how we should allocate our licenses.

If you don't think there is an entitlement attitude just read the comments about 90-10 passing for the big 5.

Guy himself is calling for litigation, nrs threatening to quit hunting Wyoming, quit applying, tying federal land ownership to wildlife, nrs saying they won't support rmef, wsf, mdf, and a host of other threats.

All because they feel entitled to a tag, a tag the state of Wyoming never promised anybody.

Like I said I have the pulse of what I'm hearing, seeing, and what those that are pushing for change are saying.

Deny it all you want....I heard for the last 6 years that 90-10 "will never pass", from all sorts of people. Including nrs who are now lashing out as though they weren't told this was going to happen.

Those that feel its not going to happen at some point for deer, elk, and pronghorn are in for another rude awakening.

I actually agree with you on a lot of your points Buzz. The one I don't is that Wyoming didn't promise a tag in marketing the preference points. People may have been crazy to believe it but it's reality they lead people to believe they would eventually draw.

As I said before, 90/10 makes sense imo, especially as opportunities decline. I have drawn a couple tags that my resident friends have yet to draw. That isn't fair and the system does need to change.

My main point of contention is the state should do something to make it right with those who have invested for so long when they lead them to believe they would have increasing odds the longer they invested. That is what separates this from all the other states that have changed. They probably won't but it doesn't mean those of us impacted have to like it.

 

[dan maule]

I actually agree with you on a lot of your points Buzz. The one I don't is that Wyoming didn't promise a tag in marketing the preference points. People may have been crazy to believe it but it's reality they lead people to believe they would eventually draw.

As I said before, 90/10 makes sense imo, especially as opportunities decline. I have drawn a couple tags that my resident friends have yet to draw. That isn't fair and the system does need to change.

My main point of contention is the state should do something to make it right with those who have invested for so long when they lead them to believe they would have increasing odds the longer they invested. That is what separates this from all the other states that have changed. They probably won't but it doesn't mean those of us impacted have to like it.

Very well said!

 

[nv-hunter]

I have a question, will this 90/10 split be separate draws or a maximum % that could be awarded to a nonres?

 

[Rich M]

I have a question, will this 90/10 split be separate draws or a maximum % that could be awarded to a nonres?

10% tags to NR MAX

What happens from here depends on whether you believe Buzz or JM77.

 

[Hilltop]

10% tags to NR MAX

What happens from here depends on whether you believe Buzz or JM77.

I agree - 10% max of total tags. I believe the rest has yet to be decided.

 

[nv-hunter]

If not separate draws it could be 3 or 7 % depending on the draw results, that would be even more upsetting if I had lots of points. I'd prefer to know there is actually a tag available when I apply.

 

[wy-tex]

I think it depends on how mule deer and pronghorn respond. If downward populations and reduced tags continue for another 3-5 years it's going to happen much sooner than you think. Residents are going to get tired of not drawing pronghorn and lq mule deer in the state they live in real fast. A real easy way to increase your draw odds is 90-10.

Nobody pushes for change when they have adequate opportunities, but that is drying up quick in Wyoming.

I think this is the issue right now Buzz. I do think it, 90/10, will pass at some point in time also but see it a little ways down the road.
Any thoughts on changing order of the draw, NR draw 1st for deer and pronghorn? No roll over for NR that way and they get their hard quota in the 1st draw.
I also agree with your points about comments and participating in the debate. We as residents should be at the meetings, myself included. Not gonna deny, I don't get to enough of them.
I do, and the spouse too, talk with G&F folks we know about issues and our thoughts. Not sure that does any good though.

 

[BuzzH]

I actually agree with you on a lot of your points Buzz. The one I don't is that Wyoming didn't promise a tag in marketing the preference points. People may have been crazy to believe it but it's reality they lead people to believe they would eventually draw.

As I said before, 90/10 makes sense imo, especially as opportunities decline. I have drawn a couple tags that my resident friends have yet to draw. That isn't fair and the system does need to change.

My main point of contention is the state should do something to make it right with those who have invested for so long when they lead them to believe they would have increasing odds the longer they invested. That is what separates this from all the other states that have changed. They probably won't but it doesn't mean those of us impacted have to like it.

Show me a single place in the regs right now that says because you have points, Wyoming promises every hunter they'll get a tag.

I'll not hold my breath, waiting for the proof.

No reason for the State to make anything right, you paid for a point, the state gave you a point...exactly what you paid for. We already determined a point does not equal a tag.

 

[kidoggy]

same concept as when you go to work and you get a monetary reward, then the dollar drops, your employer is not responsible to compensate you more. nor are the idiots who implemented the stupid policy that caused it. nor are the idiots who voted those morons in.

fools and their money are soon parted.
the world is full of those who reel suckers in. and there are plenty of suckers to be caught.

those who bought in to the point scam were suckered by the promise/ perception (?) of utopian hunts to be had and now they are just gonna have to deal with it.

ones own greed is what allows them to be scammed.

 

[Hilltop]

Show me a single place in the regs right now that says because you have points, Wyoming promises every hunter they'll get a tag.

I'll not hold my breath, waiting for the proof.

No reason for the State to make anything right, you paid for a point, the state gave you a point...exactly what you paid for. We already determined a point does not equal a tag.

We all know it isn't in the regulations now. Neither are the advertisements that are sent out regularly in an effort to get non-residents to buy more points.

The WG&F is on record stating that the preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license. That was the message sent to non-residents encouraging them to start buying points.

WG&F realized the message they were sending in the early years of PP wasn't accurate so the terminology has changed through the years. Currently the very first sentence still says - "The preference point system is designed to improve an applicant’s odds of eventually drawing a license in a hard-to-draw hunt area. ". https://wgfd.wyo.gov/hunting/preference-points The language still leads people to believe they will eventually draw if they continue to buy points.

We have gone over this numerous times Buzz and no amount of arguing will change what was stated and written.

 

[HuskyMusky]

I would be curious to see what the average age is vs. # of points is.... ? per animal.

 

[BuzzH]

We all know it isn't in the regulations now. Neither are the advertisements that are sent out regularly in an effort to get non-residents to buy more points.

The WG&F is on record stating that the preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license. That was the message sent to non-residents encouraging them to start buying points.

WG&F realized the message they were sending in the early years of PP wasn't accurate so the terminology has changed through the years. Currently the very first sentence still says - "The preference point system is designed to improve an applicant’s odds of eventually drawing a license in a hard-to-draw hunt area. ". https://wgfd.wyo.gov/hunting/preference-points The language still leads people to believe they will eventually draw if they continue to buy points.

We have gone over this numerous times Buzz and no amount of arguing will change what was stated and written.

Totally disagree and there has never been a guarantee of a tag since LQ started in any State.

You're making a claim that never has existed, in particular regarding any kind of point systems where the number of tags is so out of balance with applicant numbers. In particular when future quota's are unknown, the number of people buying points increases or decreases, WHAT hunts an individual applicant applies for and a whole host of other things.

Anyone that ever thought points would guarantee a tag was living in la-la land or must have thought they would live to be 120+ years of age...

This is nothing more than NR's lashing out at a perception...not reality.

Finally, it doesn't matter anymore for the big-5, its a done deal and you aren't going to be compensated for something you still have that you willingly purchased.

Show me where there was a promise, or legal contract, that the point system wouldn't change, allocations wouldn't change, or the whole point system wont be scrapped.

 

[Winchester]

The WG&F is on record stating that the preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license. That was the message sent to non-residents encouraging them to start buying points.
...The language still leads people to believe they will eventually draw if they continue to buy points.

Very well said Hilltop. Of course that was the expectation given. People wouldn't buy points if there wasn't an expectation of drawing a tag some day.

 

[JimP]

I hate to say it but I would like to see where Wyoming DWR said that the preference point system would guarantee a applicant a license or a tag.

At the very most I would say that they said that it would better a applicant's odds of obtaining a license/tag in the draw.

 

[mallardsx2]

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Preference Points

wgfd.wyo.gov