Fenced land on state or BLM

GOSHENGRUNTER

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
439
127
Clermont County Ohio
Had an interesting circumstance hunting public this year and wanted to get some thoughts. Before you say "ask a game warden" I did already and got 2 similar but different answers.

There are several areas I know that have high fenced hay storage on public land. The pic below is not where I hunted but the best example I could find on OnX without giving up my hunting spot ;-) . Basically, you have public hunting on state or blm. completely within that area, is a fenced area containing baled hay. There are 2 entries where a deer or person could walk into this, one on public and one is the drive marked "Private no trespassing".

Scenario- you ware hiking back to your truck parked near the road on public and you notice several big mule deer in the fence eating hay. There is an obvious shooter and several smaller bucks. what do you do? To be clear, the deer are 100% on public land, but within the fenced hay area.

Not a trick question, just looking for opinions. Ill post my story and what the wardens told me after. Happy Memorial Day!

30867
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
8,075
4,301
82
Dolores, Colorado
A lot depends on the state it was in. State owned land use really varies, depending on the state. Blm varies also depends on how the lease is structured and what it actually says. Here in Colorado, you can lease state land and keep the public out. Our shooting club leases about 120 acres from the state for our shooting range and it is for members & guests only. It is fenced and locked, totally legal. Lots of leased blm land around here for mining & oil/gas wells. All posted with No Trespassing too.
 

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
7,070
8,347
70
Gypsum, Co
^^^^^^^^^^This Here^^^^^^^^^^^

A rancher or farmer can lease State Trust Lands and post them No Trespassing and depending on the state a fence around a hay stack could be a sign that it is held in private hands.

As for what I would do, perhaps sit down and wait them out. If it is near dark and they are not moving on I would be right back there the next morning way before daylight to watch them come in, if that didn't work I would be there way early that afternoon with my fingers crossed.
 

taskswap

Very Active Member
Jul 9, 2018
523
379
Colorado
There are plenty of fences I cross, but this wouldn't be one of them. As Colorado Cowboy said, there are lots of leases here and I run into them on basically every hike. Usually the only posted sign is a reminder to close the gate, which is a pretty good indicator you're allowed to cross. There's a big difference between a fenced storage area and a fence to keep cattle in a range, and it's usually pretty obvious which is which. That one above, that's not for me.

If I really wanted that deer... it can't stay in there all the time. I'd just post up on it and wait for it to come out, if it was really that great of a trophy.

I wouldn't rely on a game warden's response to this. What two different officers decide to do in terms of charging you with a violation is too subjective for me to risk. To me, the real answer isn't "what MIGHT an officer decide to do" it's "is this legal or not?" Period. Particularly if a worker or owner of that area got noisy and insisted on pressing charges.

To me, the main issue isn't a game law at all - it's trespass. You should read the laws for your state. Most people assume only lawyers can understand them but that's just not true - they're usually very readable and very clear, and that's not an accident. Colorado is interesting: the statute states, for second-degree criminal trespass, that it means any person who:

"Unlawfully enters or remains in or upon the premises of another which are enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders or are fenced;"​

and then says:

It is a class 2 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and (b) It is a class 4 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.​

Consider the implications. If that area you had in mind was in CO, by my reading it's definitely a criminal act to enter that fenced area. Now, it's only a misdemeanor if it's classified as agricultural land, so maybe you risk the ticket - that's on you. But you'd better be SQUEAKY clean about the entire process or suddenly you have multiple felony charges (whatever felony triggers the clause above, and the now-class-4 trespass felony). It's not just poaching. Illegal sale of wildlife (sell a few pounds to a friend without documentation?) and illegal destruction of wildlife (not taking all the required meat) are both felonies, and they're not the only mistakes that are easy to make.

Note that in Colorado it's also NOT required to post a no-trespassing notice. It's trespassing either way. The reason a lot of folks still do it (in addition to wanting to send the message) is because of this additional statute:

Except as is otherwise provided in section 33-6-116 (1), C.R.S., a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land that is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to the person by the owner of the land or some other authorized person or unless notice forbidding entry is given by posting with signs at intervals of not more than four hundred forty yards or, if there is a readily identifiable entrance to the land, by posting with signs at such entrance to the private land or the forbidden part of the land​

So there's a defense against trespass if the land looks unimproved. And if a house is set way back on a big property you might claim it wasn't possible to know it was improved until you were inside the land. So posting a notice at the boundary stops potential trespassers from claiming that defense.
 

GOSHENGRUNTER

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
439
127
Clermont County Ohio
Well I was pretty much in the same mindset as you guys. My instance was in Wyoming. I posted up and watched the bucks nibble on hay for an hour. The big shooter then walked out the driveway, onto the road, and onto private and bedded at about 250 yards. Never had a shot on him that I was 100% sure was legal. One of the smaller bucks wandered out the back side of the pen onto public. Being the last day and a halfway decent deer, I tagged him.

When I ran into the GW in town, he jokingly said "You probably shouldn't shoot them in the pen because your friends will say you killed a high fenced deer". He added that in most cases I'd be fine it there were openings in the fence that you could walk through and it wasn't obviously posted if you were walking toward it from the public- (You could only see the sign from the road)- but that its more than likely better to let them get out first.

GW 2 checked us in camp about 2 hours later as we were packing up. He said it would've been fine to shoot, and in fact the rancher would've thanked me for "taking a rat off his hay". He followed up with- better to let them get out of the fence before shooting, but people kill deer in there all the time.

Clear as mud!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dan maule

Rich M

Very Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
758
566
LOL! That's a toughie.

Too bad you couldn't/didn't call him from where you were and get the scoop right then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GOSHENGRUNTER

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,811
3,011
You said the hole in the fence was big enough for a man or a deer.

But the real question here is: Is it big enough for a man and a deer at the same time? lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: GOSHENGRUNTER

wy-tex

Veteran member
May 2, 2016
1,059
341
SE Wyoming
Curious was the gate open or were they jumping in?
After that conversation I would also call or go talk in person with the landowner, he may welcome you to his place to keep the deer off his hay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GOSHENGRUNTER

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
7,070
8,347
70
Gypsum, Co
Usually the fences around hay stacks have one large hole or gate in them to allow the rancher to pull his truck into so he can load up a few bails of hay for his cattle.

In all my experiences with them I can not remember the gates being closed very often if at all.

Usually the cattle that they are feeding the hay to are located off in another pasture so the rancher doesn't have to worry too much about them getting into it.
 

dirtclod Az.

Veteran member
Jan 26, 2018
1,637
444
Arizona
Had an interesting circumstance hunting public this year and wanted to get some thoughts. Before you say "ask a game warden" I did already and got 2 similar but different answers.

There are several areas I know that have high fenced hay storage on public land. The pic below is not where I hunted but the best example I could find on OnX without giving up my hunting spot ;-) . Basically, you have public hunting on state or blm. completely within that area, is a fenced area containing baled hay. There are 2 entries where a deer or person could walk into this, one on public and one is the drive marked "Private no trespassing".

Scenario- you ware hiking back to your truck parked near the road on public and you notice several big mule deer in the fence eating hay. There is an obvious shooter and several smaller bucks. what do you do? To be clear, the deer are 100% on public land, but within the fenced hay area.

Not a trick question, just looking for opinions. Ill post my story and what the wardens told me after. Happy Memorial Day!

View attachment 30867
Send some more lead,it shows you care!! 💥
 
  • Haha
Reactions: GOSHENGRUNTER

GOSHENGRUNTER

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
439
127
Clermont County Ohio
Curious was the gate open or were they jumping in?
After that conversation I would also call or go talk in person with the landowner, he may welcome you to his place to keep the deer off his hay.
the gate was open....actually, it was non-existent. Just a two track going in the back side and a driveway with a cattle guard on the front.