1 load is a 100 grain factory Remington, the other is a 100 grain factory Winchester which is the problem child.
Cartridge extraction
- Thread starter go_deep
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Decided to email Winchester. After a couple replies back and forth, some pictures, I got an email that they wanted the shells back. After I printed off multiple labels, bought bubble wrap and a box, plus go drop it off, I probably could have just went and bought more shells! Lol
Well I guess we'll see what they got to say after they get them. I did notice though when I put the empties back in the box, I had to force them down into the foam pretty hard, so the casing definitely expanded and swelled out after being shot.
Well I guess we'll see what they got to say after they get them. I did notice though when I put the empties back in the box, I had to force them down into the foam pretty hard, so the casing definitely expanded and swelled out after being shot.
Looking forward to what they conclude.
Brass being larger after firing is nothing alarming. All brass must be sized again to reload, but the amount of brass growth would be interesting to know.
Hopefully the new ammo they send you will be just as good, if not better, than these cartridges.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
memtb
Active Member
gray bird, In the technical sense, yes, anytime you run the case into a “ full-length” resizing or “neck-sizing” die....you are resizing the case. Though, I think as a general statement, the term re-sizing is thought of as “full-length” resizing. As probably most are aware, “full-length” resizing, sets the shoulder back, as well as reducing the overall case outside dimensions....bringing it back to or nearly to, new/unfired case dimensions!
For our (wife and myself) hunting rifles, I use a “full-length” resizing die, but “only” do a partial resize. I run the case into the die only far enough to “kiss” the case shoulder.....doing minimal shoulder setback. In my scenario, I’m between, “neck-sizing” only and “full-length” resizing! While chambering the round does require more effort than a case brought back to factory case dimensions, the minimal resizing extends the expected brass life. Essentially, only uniforming and reducing the neck OD for proper neck tension and minimally setting the shoulder back, for ease of chambering. In that I am loading to maximum (maybe a bit beyond) SAAMI specifications, I can get 10+ firings before discarding the case.
I realize that you and many others likely know and understand all of that “gibberish”, but perhaps I was able to “further confuse” some that do not hand-load! ! memtb
For our (wife and myself) hunting rifles, I use a “full-length” resizing die, but “only” do a partial resize. I run the case into the die only far enough to “kiss” the case shoulder.....doing minimal shoulder setback. In my scenario, I’m between, “neck-sizing” only and “full-length” resizing! While chambering the round does require more effort than a case brought back to factory case dimensions, the minimal resizing extends the expected brass life. Essentially, only uniforming and reducing the neck OD for proper neck tension and minimally setting the shoulder back, for ease of chambering. In that I am loading to maximum (maybe a bit beyond) SAAMI specifications, I can get 10+ firings before discarding the case.
I realize that you and many others likely know and understand all of that “gibberish”, but perhaps I was able to “further confuse” some that do not hand-load! ! memtb
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I'll comment again. I have shot a lot of brass that I have not resized at all, after it had been shot in the same rifle that it was reloaded for. The only reason to neck size is to completely seal the bullet to the inside of the case neck. I was interested in seeing if there was any performance difference between neck sized and unsized. There actually was, the unsized loads had slightly faster fps on my chronograph. I was interested in pressure also, which I could not see any difference. In some loads the bullets were not totally tight, they could be moved with finger pressure. The reason was slightly thinner wall thickness in the neck from more reloading and case stretching and trimming. I would always neck size on my hunting loads. But when I experiment and shoot paper and sometimes in my custom .220 Ackley Improved Swift I use for Prairie Dogs.
JimP
Administrator
When I was building a load for my 22-250 I had some rounds that I would seat the bullets with my fingers. I even had a couple where the bullet would drop out of the loaded case if I turned it upside down.
Those were some of my most accurate loads that I came up with. But to err on the side of wanting to keep everything together I did push the neck down a little bit just to hold the bullets.
Those were some of my most accurate loads that I came up with. But to err on the side of wanting to keep everything together I did push the neck down a little bit just to hold the bullets.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
JimP
Administrator
tim
Veteran member
go deep
I am not technical in any way. I am defiantly big picture guy and those little details just get in my way. Therefore i don't reload.
But follow with me. The gun you are shooting, has been shot alot. When that gun was made, the powders where probably different than todays powders. so you take an older gun whose chamber might not be to spec anymore(think sloppy), you put new ammo in it, with todays powders, you might be getting to much pressure, due to modern ammo in an old gun. I would be curious is handloads, loaded down some would fix your problem. Or the chamber is just "loose" and anything you shoot in it will expand. I Like i said, i am not a technical person. And i am just thinking out loud.
I am not technical in any way. I am defiantly big picture guy and those little details just get in my way. Therefore i don't reload.
But follow with me. The gun you are shooting, has been shot alot. When that gun was made, the powders where probably different than todays powders. so you take an older gun whose chamber might not be to spec anymore(think sloppy), you put new ammo in it, with todays powders, you might be getting to much pressure, due to modern ammo in an old gun. I would be curious is handloads, loaded down some would fix your problem. Or the chamber is just "loose" and anything you shoot in it will expand. I Like i said, i am not a technical person. And i am just thinking out loud.
JimP
Administrator
Tim you are close in your idea but. Chambers very seldom get sloppy to say, the headspace might change some but unlikely.
One reason that they tell you not to shoot modern ammo in vintage firearms (pre 1900 mostly) is that the old black powder firearms were not designed for the pressures that modern ammo can be loaded to. I would say that 99% of any and all firearms that were made since can shoot any factory ammo that is loaded for what the rifle is chambered in with zero problems.
My take is that Winchester found a problem with the ammo and sent him a refund without admitting what was wrong or admitting guilt that the ammo was loaded to higher pressures than what is standard for that cartridge.
One reason that they tell you not to shoot modern ammo in vintage firearms (pre 1900 mostly) is that the old black powder firearms were not designed for the pressures that modern ammo can be loaded to. I would say that 99% of any and all firearms that were made since can shoot any factory ammo that is loaded for what the rifle is chambered in with zero problems.
My take is that Winchester found a problem with the ammo and sent him a refund without admitting what was wrong or admitting guilt that the ammo was loaded to higher pressures than what is standard for that cartridge.
Guess I got some thoughts, but at this point it really doesn't matter. I'll buy a few other flavors and see if the gun likes them. It shoots the Remingtons decent enough out to 200 that I might just stick with them at this point
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