NM sheep, oryx and ibex

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
Just got this in an email from NMGF. Not cool to change the game on everyone for this draw, after everyone had already committed...

Court ruling gives New Mexico resident hunters better odds in drawings for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex
ALBUQUERQUE – New Mexico resident hunters scored a big victory Monday with a U.S. District Court ruling that allows the Department of Game and Fish to reinstate quotas that give state residents a big advantage over nonresidents when applying for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex hunting licenses.
“This is an important decision and a huge win for New Mexico hunters,” said Paul Kienzle, newly elected chairman of the State Game Commission. “It’s been a long fight, but New Mexicans now have a good shot at those quality hunts, as intended by the governor and the state legislature.”
Monday’s ruling by Chief U.S. District Judge Christina Armijo vacated a 1977 injunction that prohibited the Department from applying preferential quotas that benefited state residents in the drawings for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex licenses. Because of that injunction, nonresident hunters enjoyed equal odds with residents in the annual drawings.
Beginning with this year’s draw, resident hunters who apply for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex licenses will enjoy the same odds as those who applied for any other big-game species. Currently, state residents receive 84 percent of all public licenses issued through drawings. Nonresidents receive 6 percent and hunters using outfitters – residents and nonresidents – qualify for 10 percent of public licenses. The application deadline for 2014-15 big-game licenses was March 19.
“The injunction has prevented the Department from complying with state law to the detriment of New Mexico residents and in opposition to the will of the governor and the legislature,” Department Legal Counsel Allison Marks said. “Judge Armijo unequivocally found New Mexico’s statutory quota does not violate federal law. The judge’s quick decision affords the Department the opportunity to make immediate changes to the draw system in order to comply with state law.”
Several conservation organizations supported the Department’s motion to vacate the injunction. They included United Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, the New Mexico Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation, the New Mexico Wildlife Federation and the Southern New Mexico Chapter of Safari Club International.
The injunction applied only to bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex because at the time of the legal challenge, they were the only species of big game in New Mexico for which the State Game Commission provided an in-state preference for license allocation. The injunction was issued in connection with a 1974 lawsuit by David B. Terk, a Texas resident and hunter. Terk challenged New Mexico’s license allocation system that gave him a lower chance of drawing a license than state residents would enjoy.
 
Jan 7, 2013
129
0
central Kentucky
So according to this release 10% of the oryx tags at white sands will now go to hunters with outfitters? Wonder if I could modify my nr application and have a outfitter put in for the draw.
I agree with fink not good to change the rules after they have our money.


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Ridgerunner

Active Member
Feb 21, 2011
308
0
Considering the sheep applicants didn't have to apply with outfitters kiss that portion of the allocation goodbye.
 

jims

Member
Oct 5, 2012
95
0
KC Missouri
I, too, am not happy that NM is changing the rules after the application deadline and after they have our money It will be interesting to see how they handle the NR portion of the draw this year. Since no one had any reason to sign with an outfitter to go into the guide draw for those species this year, I'm wondering if NM will lump the 6% unguided draw with the 10% guided draw resulting in a 16% pool for NR's for this year. Still, way less chance for NR's than in the previous years.
 

Alabama

Veteran member
Feb 18, 2013
1,395
191
Sweet Home Alabama
First year applying in NM and they yank the rug out from under me. Oh well, the chances of drawing were slim at best anyway. I won't be applying anymore. Too much money fronted to them for such a little chance.

Maybe this is what Zim is always talking about. They take your money then change the system on you.
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
I knew this was coming just not today. It sux to live in a state that caters to out a staters and to hunt states that severely penalize them
I hear that...

I understand the desire to give the residents of the state more opportunity to hunt the more 'once in a lifetime' type animals, but to change the game, AFTER you've collected what has to be multiple millions of dollars in tag fees, has got to be criminal in some fashion.

Next step for New Mexico: Banning non resident hunters..... Unless they buy a transferrable, to any ground in the unit, landowner tag. Those are okay.
 

Fish

Active Member
Jul 8, 2011
319
3
WA State
I guess I got lucky and drew an oryx tag on the white sands small missile base on my first try in 1991. I shot a nice 38 1/2 in oryx. With the mulie populations going in the shitter in a lot of states, impossible draw odds and the shitty hunting in my home state of WA, sure makes getting older a little easier to take, but only a little
 

Zim

Very Active Member
Feb 28, 2011
738
67
LaPorte, IN
Just another bait-n-switch that should surprise nobody by now. It's a national trend. Very glad I chose not to apply this year as I was kicking around ibex & oryx until the app deadline. Waste of coin as it turned out. Been making some good personal decisions lately getting out of bad lotteries. This is one that will join that club hereafter.
 

buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
2,167
1,353
I received the email as well. The tone of the email is that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I wondered why they sent that to me as a nonresident.
 

WY ME

Very Active Member
Feb 4, 2014
549
47
Wyoming
I'm 100% in favor of residents getting the lion's share of the tags but the state of NM has not operated in good faith. The state should wait until 2015 to implement the new rules.
 

Umpqua Hunter

Veteran member
May 26, 2011
3,576
88
61
North Umpqua, Oregon
16% is not a lot of tags to give nonresidents. I guess it's better than some states.
Non-residents only are assured 6% of the tags. The other 10% is in the outfitter draw in which both residents and non-residents can apply.

I sent NMDGF and email today requesting an immediate refund of all my tag fees, license fees, and application fees, if they plan to limit the non-resident quota this year. The 2014-2015 New Mexico Hunting Rules & Info specifically stated on page 6 that "Draw Licenses for bighorn sheep, ibex and oryx" are "hunts not subject to quota".

They have replied:

"The Department is assessing impacts and options to hunters that applied for bighorn sheep, ibex and oryx. Once the Department has determined the best course of action, we will notify the public regarding any changes to the application or draw process for these species. Notification of any changes will be sent to the media and published on our website.

Information Specialist
Information and Education Division
New Mexico Game & Fish
888-248-6866"
 
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Topgun 30-06

Banned
Jun 12, 2013
1,353
1
Allegan, MI
The NM G&F has done the correct thing with the issuance of this email today on how they are going to handle the draw for those three animals this year and it's exactly what I told everyone on a couple other websites that they needed to do in order to stay out of individual lawsuits or a Class Action lawsuit by NR hunters. Every NR should immediately request a refund because with the low tag numbers for those three animals, especially sheep, and a 6% cap for NR DIY hunters there won't even be any tags available for a NR to draw under the change! Here is the email:

REVISED: CORRECTED PHONE NUMBER
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 26 2014:

APPLICANTS FOR BIGHORN SHEEP, ORYX AND IBEX HUNTING LICENSES ELIGIBLE FOR FULL REFUNDS

SANTA FE – Hunters who applied for bighorn sheep, oryx or ibex licenses for the 2014-15 seasons and are unsuccessful in the drawings will be eligible for full refunds of application fees and license fees, the Department of Game and Fish announced Wednesday.
Application fees normally are nonrefundable whether a license applicant is successful or not. This year’s departure from that practice is in response to Monday’s ruling in U.S. District Court that vacated a 1977 injunction that prohibited the Department from applying preferential quotas that benefitted state residents in drawings for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex licenses. The injunction allowed nonresidents to enjoy the same odds as residents when applying for those species.

Because of Monday’s ruling, the Department will begin applying the same quotas this year to bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex applications as it applies to deer, elk, pronghorn antelope and Barbary sheep. According to those quotas, 84 percent of licenses are allocated to New Mexico residents, 6 percent are allocated to nonresidents, and 10 percent are allocated to applicants – residents and nonresidents – who use New Mexico outfitters.

Applicants for bighorn sheep, oryx and ibex who choose not to participate in the new quota system must delete their applications by April 18. Applications can be deleted through online accounts or by telephone toll-free, (888) 248-6866.

“The Department determined that it will be most equitable to refund the normally nonrefundable application fees to applicants who are unsuccessful or who choose to withdraw their application due to changes resulting from the recent court decision, and to comply immediately with state law,” Department General Counsel Allison Marks said.

Because the option to apply with outfitters was not offered on this year’s application forms, hunters who would like to designate a valid outfitter will be able to do so and join the 10 percent license allocation pool. To add a New Mexico outfitter to an application, the applicant will be required to call the Department and provide the application number, customer identification number and the outfitter number no later than April 18.

The court ruling prompted the Department to delay this year’s drawing by approximately one week. Drawing results will be available no later than April 30.
 
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Umpqua Hunter

Veteran member
May 26, 2011
3,576
88
61
North Umpqua, Oregon
The NM G&F has done the correct thing with the issuance of this email today on how they are going to handle the draw for those three animals this year and it's exactly what I told everyone on a couple other websites that they needed to do in order to stay out of individual lawsuits or a Class Action lawsuit by NR hunters. Every NR should immediately request a refund because with the low tag numbers for those three animals, especially sheep, and a 6% cap for NR DIY hunters there won't even be any tags available for a NR to draw under the change!
It was the right thing to do. It appears that for those who choose to leave their application in the drawing, they will not be charged nonrefundable application fees this year:

"“The Department determined that it will be most equitable to refund the normally nonrefundable application fees to applicants who are unsuccessful or who choose to withdraw their application due to changes resulting from the recent court decision, and to comply immediately with state law,” Department General Counsel Allison Marks said."
 
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Doe Nob

Very Active Member
Feb 21, 2011
565
0
Houston, TX
Ok, so they say you can jump in the outfitter pool now and that's what I think I'm going to do for these 3. My assumptions is they round down and not up on tag allocation since you can't exceed the 10% or 6%

Oryx hunts have 49 tags, so 4 to outiftters and 2 to NR DIY

Ibex rifle & mz each have 25 tags, so 2 to outfitters and 1 to NR DIY

The question I have is how are they going to run the sheep hunts? % of total sheep tags?
If they run it as a % of each hunt code, this is now a resident only hunt, no NR tags.
There are 12 BHS and 16 DBHS total Ram tags available.
Under the assumption they treat those seperately, you get one outfitter tag per species and NO DIY tags.
Under the assumption they do % of the total sheep draw (This would seem to me to be the fairest), there's 28 total ram tags so 1 DIY tag and 2 outfitter tags.