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Thread: Corner Hopping

  1. #61
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    In the end......if it is visually marked ( which it is sometimes) , backed up with Google Earth, Onyx maps...
    ..and the intent.....is not to trespass but to move from one public land to another.....with no damage to anything......nothing will come of it. I agree I listed a bunch of caveats but they all come into play.

  2. #62
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    Montana actually address' trespassing while hunting in the criminal code.

    Montana Code Annotated 2017
    TITLE 45. CRIMES
    CHAPTER 6. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
    Part 2. Criminal Trespass and Burglary
    Criminal Trespass To Property
    45-6-203. Criminal trespass to property. (1) Except as provided in 15-7-139, 70-16-111, and 76-13-116, a person commits the offense of criminal trespass to property if the person knowingly:

    (a) enters or remains unlawfully in an occupied structure; or

    (b) enters or remains unlawfully in or upon the premises of another.

    (2) A person convicted of the offense of criminal trespass to property shall be fined not to exceed $500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for any term not to exceed 6 months, or both.

    (3) A person convicted of or who forfeits bond or bail for committing an act of criminal trespass involving property owned or administered by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks or while hunting, fishing, or trapping may be subject to revocation of the person's privilege to hunt, fish, or trap in this state for up to 24 months from the date of conviction or forfeiture.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenness View Post

    (a) enters or remains unlawfully in an occupied structure; or

    (b) enters or remains unlawfully in or upon the premises of another.
    [/I]
    The language in WY is similar. Crossing at the corner, a hunter would be neither entering nor remaining in or upon private property. If I were a county attorney in either WY or MT, any argument against corner crossing is far too tenuous to be worth my time and effort to obtain a conviction.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by fackelberry View Post
    I don't know why people say the Game wardens can give you a ticket for corner crossing? You are breaking NO game violations doing it. It would be a civil violation! The Game warden i talked to said it is up to the County Sherriffs department if its trespassing or not. Some counties prosecute and some don't. Thats here in Wyoming. I also think some game wardens "create" their own laws sometimes. There is nothing funner than having a question or scenario and asking a game warden and he has no answer.
    I've did it a few times, matter of fact i've even been to the Regional office and talked to the director about my questions and me and him dug out the ACTUAL game law book to look it up. And HOLY COW, that book is HUGE! But they were all nice and i got my answers, but i have a few more that me and a buddy have come up with to ask next time im up there. I love picking their brain!
    If you want to see a game warden's mouth stop working just put a recorder in front of him and ask him a question. Had this experience back in the '80's when 7 state and federal wardens raided our fur buying business. We never broke any laws but were treated like criminals.

  5. #65
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    There is legal precedence in regards to the legality of corner crossing:

    United States Supreme Court
    LEO SHEEP CO. v. UNITED STATES, (1979)
    No. 77-1686
    Argued: Decided: March 27, 1979

    Basically the U.S. Supreme Court said that nobody can violate the rights of the private land owner.

    The simple way to look at the issue is that if the adjacent private land owners built fences on their properties then where they met at the corner it would be impossible for anyone to pass through without violating their private property rights. And yes, even the air space above the boundaries (to a reasonable height above the ground) are part of those properties.

    But it seems that most people live in a fantasy world and think that if they want to do something then it's justifiable to do it. As one TV personality used to say; "I reject your reality and substitute my own" - in other words, if I don't like the truths of the circumstances I'll just ignore them and do what I want.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammont View Post
    There is legal precedence in regards to the legality of corner crossing:

    United States Supreme Court
    LEO SHEEP CO. v. UNITED STATES, (1979)
    No. 77-1686
    Argued: Decided: March 27, 1979

    Basically the U.S. Supreme Court said that nobody can violate the rights of the private land owner.

    The simple way to look at the issue is that if the adjacent private land owners built fences on their properties then where they met at the corner it would be impossible for anyone to pass through without violating their private property rights. And yes, even the air space above the boundaries (to a reasonable height above the ground) are part of those properties.

    But it seems that most people live in a fantasy world and think that if they want to do something then it's justifiable to do it. As one TV personality used to say; "I reject your reality and substitute my own" - in other words, if I don't like the truths of the circumstances I'll just ignore them and do what I want.
    Sorry, but this case does not set precedent that corner crossing is illegal. Building a road over a corner and stepping over a corner are two separate things. Maybe you have skin in this, maybe not, but there is no definitive Wyoming law that makes corner crossing illegal or that it violates private landowner's rights. But you already knew that.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammont View Post
    There is legal precedence in regards to the legality of corner crossing:

    United States Supreme Court
    LEO SHEEP CO. v. UNITED STATES, (1979)
    No. 77-1686
    Argued: Decided: March 27, 1979

    Basically the U.S. Supreme Court said that nobody can violate the rights of the private land owner.

    The simple way to look at the issue is that if the adjacent private land owners built fences on their properties then where they met at the corner it would be impossible for anyone to pass through without violating their private property rights. And yes, even the air space above the boundaries (to a reasonable height above the ground) are part of those properties.

    But it seems that most people live in a fantasy world and think that if they want to do something then it's justifiable to do it. As one TV personality used to say; "I reject your reality and substitute my own" - in other words, if I don't like the truths of the circumstances I'll just ignore them and do what I want.
    What's to stop a guy from setting up a stepladder to span the fence corners?
    Live to hunt, hunt to live.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM77 View Post
    Sorry, but this case does not set precedent that corner crossing is illegal. Building a road over a corner and stepping over a corner are two separate things. Maybe you have skin in this, maybe not, but there is no definitive Wyoming law that makes corner crossing illegal or that it violates private landowner's rights. But you already knew that.
    Prove it, you keep claiming that there is no case law that set a precedence, I proved you wrong. Have you read this case? I suspect that you haven't, if you have then explain to me how it does not set a precedent for making corner crossing illegal. If corner crossing weren't illegal then this whole discussion would never have happened. Justice Warren E. Burger said in his summary

    "We are unwilling to accept the Government's invitation to upset settled (emphasis is mine, settled means that the expectations of land owner have already been proven under the law) expectations to accommodate some ill-defined power to construct public thoroughfares through private property without compensation".

    In other words, unless you get permission from the property, who has been compensated to his satisfaction (which may or may not include financial compensation), you can't cross his property.

    Stepping over a corner still requires that you violate the space above the property, space that is considered private property. Again, imagine that both adjacent property owners built fences to the corner. Further, imagine that the fences are extensions of the property lines. If you want to cross at the corner then your body would have to cross/touch the fences/property lines on both sides of the corner (your body occupies 3 dimensional space; height, width, and depth) which means you that you would have to trespass.

    Once again, making up an excuse to try to get around the legalities just isn't going to work. As I've said several times now, even a reasonable amount of air space above the ground is considered private property, if that weren't so then nobody would have any rights to build structures that were any height above the ground or plant trees. If you understand my point about imagining a fence rather than invisible property lines then you will understand that the ladder will still violate the air space above the ground.

  9. #69
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    How is it that I can float across private property as long as I don't touch the bottom. It must be because all the waters in the state belong to the state but the air in the state belongs to the property owner not sure how all this works.

  10. #70
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    The case law was speaking to a road, which if my recollection is correct, is wider then someone stepping over private to public without touching private. Depriving them of what? A road would deprive a private landowner of some of their land.
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