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  1. #1
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    non-mag do all rifle setup?

    If you were wanting a do all non-magnum rifle what set up, what would it be?

    Personally I'm trying to figure out, SA vs LA, as well I'm really looking for 20-22" barrel.

    7mm08/AI vs 280/AI vs ? (284win?)

    Looking for as much performance from a handy rifle as I can get.

    I think it would mostly be a deer-antelope non elk rifle but possibly would be nice to hunt elk with.

    I'm kind of debating, how much more do you get from a 280 over a 7mm-08, and also those vs going the AI route how much is gained?

    love the idea of a SA with 20" barrel, but would I gain a lot of performance with a LA with a 22" barrel?

    I'd have the magnum if needed ever but looking to avoid a SA/LA with 24-26" barrel.

    also don't see the point of a SA cartridge built on a LA in order to gain some extra performance vs. just using a LA cartridge...

    also does anyone know at what distance BC's beat out drop/energy? I was under the impression it was after 500-600yds which I have no intention of hunting past 500yds any time soon and if I did I think at that point I'd have a more specialized rig for that.

    Thanks!

    Update, I'm thinking 280 AI, 22" barrel, maybe in the 6.5lbs range, 8lbs with scope.
    Last edited by HuskyMusky; 08-12-2017 at 06:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    At 500 yards the 7mm08 is good to go. I actually like and use the 308 & 260 Rem. But for Elk size I like the 308.

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  4. #3
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    The very high BC bullets really offer little advantage until they get past 500 yards or so. You are good there. LA vs SA is about 1/2" ish and a little weight. But you can make a very short handy rifle with a SA and 20" tube. Have a Rem M7 SS with a 20" tube. Light, handy, and difficult to shoot for me much past 300. I've settled on long actions based off the 30-06, with medium contour 24" tubes, as my go to. They balance well for me and I find them easier to shootout to 500-600. 25-06 and 280 are my main tools, with a couple light weight 270's with 22 1/2" tubes thrown in too.

    Where the 280 offers gains over the 7-08 is with heavier bullets. 160 ish grains +. For your goals, mostly deer sized stuff, a 140 grain pill seems best, meaning there will not be much difference between the two at that bullet weight. A good 140 will handle elk fine too.

    With your criteria, I'd probably end up with a .284 Win and 22" tube. Possibly a 6.5 CM or 6.5x284. There is an old saying that more weight on a rifle is good for everything but carrying.

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  6. #4
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    Agreed Tim, not looking for ultra lightweight, but light-medium weight, and yes something that balances well etc...,

    Just trying to get some ideas, I'll probably end up with both, ha.

    7mm08 with a 20"
    and a
    280 with a 22"

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  8. #5
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    I owned and loaded for a couple 280's with 22" barrels. I was able to get good accuracy from both but at limited speeds. Powders have come a ways since I tried, I was using the 4350's, 4831's, and RL22. I wasn't seeing speeds much better than advertised speeds for 7mm/08 factory stuff with the same barrel length. It could have just been the guns I had, I'm no 280 expert. For whatever reason the 270's I loaded for with 20 and 22" barrels did much better on velocity. The 280's were running 140gr bullets at 2800fps and 160gr bullets at 2650 to 2700. The 20" 270 ran 150gr Ballistic tips at 2950fps and the 22" Ruger American ran 140gr Accubonds at 2950fps with similar accuracy, powder weights in relation to max, and load development.

    Another disclaimer, that's just my personal experience with a M77 Ruger tang safety rifle and a Browning A bolt in 280 not a knock on the 280. I like the 280 I just think that it's like the 25-06 a bit, it needs some barrel length to achieve the speeds I look for from my work with both.

    If I was not concerned with elk I'd probably look hard at the 6.5mm offerings. I think I could find a case/barrel length combo that would push a fairly high BC 120gr bullet at 2900fps or more and would do what I'd want it to on deer size game with fairly mild recoil. The 270 win isn't a bad choice either but might kick a bit more.

    I don't see a lot of reason to go with a 7mm Ackley improved option unless I'm looking to go to a heavier bullet. If I'm going that route I would go with the 280 Ackley and a 24" barrel. That would be more of an all around option that would handle elk well. In a light rifle that's a pretty big step up in recoil also and probably not necessary for the deer hunting you describe.

    When I did a similar build I ended up taking an inaccurate Kimber 84L Montana in 280 Ackley I picked up used and building a 24" 270 win off it. The Kimber from the factory was only giving 3 to 4" groups with the factory ammo I tried of different weights so I built off it with Pac Nor #3 fluted 270 barrel I had on in 270 Win on a heavier M70 action. After the barrel swap the 270 shoots 130gr factory Nosler 130gr Accubond ammo very well at a tolerable recoil level. The factory ammo is only moving 2964fps but it suits my needs. An attempt at improving that might step recoil up to a level I don't like. That barrel has always liked a 140gr Accubond at 2950fps and still does, but it does so with considerably more recoil.
    Last edited by mcseal2; 08-08-2017 at 08:16 PM.

  9. #6
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    I'd narrow it down to two old workhorses. Either the 30-06 or a 270 Win. Either one will work quite well in a 20-22 inch barrel and are quite capable of dropping anything up to and including elk.

    I might lean towards the .270 just for the reason that I don't have one yet, at least the .270 Win. I do have a nice short Ruger #1 in .270 Weatherby.
    If you don't care where you are, you are not lost....

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  11. #7
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    I have been working on a similar project all summer. I had a 7mm-08 built on a Rem 700 SA, 22in. lightweight fluted barrel, HS Precision stock, bedded, Timney trigger, all Teflon coated. My load i found shoots 140gr, Accubonds at 2800FPS, I have a 4-12x40mm Leupold scope on it. Whole thing as i described weighs 6.5 pounds. What a dream to carry up the mountain. I love it. I have personally seen 2 smaller 6 point bull elk shot with a similar load out of another 7mm-08 and the 140 Accubond at around 250 yards broadside. Both bullets went out the other side of the bulls. They only went about 25 yards and down they went. I'm a firm believer in the 7-08 for elk as long as the range is adequate and you use good bullets. It will do anything with a 140gr bullet a 270 or 280 will do with the same bullet, with less kick and usually a smaller lighter rifle. Like was said before if you go heavier than a 140, the 270 or 280 would edge the 7-08 out, but not by much! I love mine and wouldn't trade it for nothing!

  12. #8
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    I was in a similar situation last winter. I ended up getting Kimber Hunter in 280AI. I had some issues with it at first but I'm getting it dialed in now. It's light, and shoots sub MOA and all I've done to it is have the trigger adjusted. 160 gr accubond bullet

  13. #9
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    All mentioned rifles would do exactly what you are looking for.

    I did the same thing a few years ago and chose the .270 Win. I loaded it with a 150 gr. Nosler Partitions/Ballistic tips.
    It is a pleasure to shoot and components/dies etc are very cheap and easy to find.

  14. #10
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    My cartridge philosophy is moving towards cartridges which will push the high BC (ballistic coefficient), heavy for caliber, bullets at the high end of their performance spectrum, but not so hard as to be a barrel burner. For me, my focus has moved to 7mm (.284) and 6.5mm (.264) bullets since their BC bullets correspond well with the game I want to hunt with them (see below). That comes from someone who has been a long time hunter with a 300 WSM (6.5 pound with scope, short action, love it!) and for the 20 years before that a .270 (killed 5 sheep, three moose and a grizzly as well as a lot more game with it).

    The high BC 6.5 mm bullets fall in the 140 grain range which is about a perfect bullet weight for antelope, deer, sheep, etc and is also a reasonable weight bullet for elk (keeping the range of your shots reasonable). Realize that the 6.5X55 (short action I believe) has been used for moose for decades in Europe.

    The high BC 7 mm bullets fall in the 180-195 grain range which is a very solid elk performer but on the heavy end for deer and antelope. My gut says that you really need magnum to maximize the performance of the high BC 7mm bullets.

    So with that in mind, I was recently in the market for a 6.5 mm cartridge. As you may know from another thread, I recently went through this process and went with a 6.5 Creedmoor. I chose it for the following reasons:

    1) Short action, my feelings was the CM was maximizing the 6.5 mm in a short action
    2) Non magnum
    3) High BC bullets (140 grain) commonly available in factory ammo and relatively cheap.
    4) Very mild recoil (for kids/grandkids to shoot)
    5) Long barrel life
    6) Inherently accurate
    7) Lapua brass available for reloading
    8) Wildly popular cartridge


    The rifle I ended up ordering was the Tikka T3X CTR which comes in both a 20" and 24" barrel and also has a threaded muzzle. My 24" showed up yesterday

    Had I been willing to go long action, and hunt mostly with reloads, I would have gone with the 6.5-284. Who knows that may still end up in my gun safe as a high performance rifle for deer sized game

    As for the 7 mm, I've accumulating components for a 28 Nosler as I wanted a cartridge that really makes the most of the high BC bullets in 7mm.

    As a side note, It would be interesting to compare the 7mm-08 to the 6.5 Creedmoor, both with 140 grain bullets. For example, in the Bergers at 140 grain, the BC is roughly 20% higher for 6.5 mm bullets as compared to 7mm bullets.
    Last edited by Umpqua Hunter; 08-13-2017 at 04:47 PM.

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